A little more than two weeks to go before the 2012 American election. It seems like business is stuck in the mud–slinging.
I’m going to make the contrarian case that this is precisely the time for people to take action, because almost everybody is so scared about the outcome of the election.
If the President is re-elected, many people I talk to think it will be a bad thing for small business and manufacturing. But if you listened to his arguments, Obama is gung ho for small business and manufacturing, and the remarkable thing is that this segment of the economy has generally prospered since he took office. The “Jobs Act” of 2010 has been helpful by extending very favorable tax incentives for investment. These goodies end December 31, 2012.
Small business definitely fears Obamacare and it has been a significant deterrent to hiring because the regulations are still cloudy, but our business is seeing reductions in rates for next year for the first time in memory, which my agent tells me is a reaction by hospitals and insurance companies to compete for clients heading in to life under Obamacare.
I know the Obama haters will be furious about these remarks, but my point is that from an economic standpoint, our community has generally done well during Obama’s tenure and the GM/Chrysler bailout. Would we have done better with McCain? I don’t know, nor do you.
If Governor Romney wins, which I now believe is quite possible, I think a Republican administration with a leader like Romney will also be favorable for business. Regulation, particularly EPA meddling will subside. Obamacare, though unlikely to be repealed, will be restructured to consider the burdens on small business. And the mood will improve without the annoying confrontational posturing of Obama.
Either man will face the “fiscal cliff” immediately. I think there is a 90% chance of some kind of deal, even if it is the deferral of a compromise for a year. The Simpson-Bowles proposal is the framework for an ultimate resolution of the gridlock and I can feel the country moving toward a consensus that the debt crisis and entitlements must be addressed now. Neither party wants to be blamed for pushing the country into another recession after we have barely moved out of one.
My belief is that neither Obama or Romney will be a savior, but the country will survive under either man, because fortunately the President does not run the economy–though he is blamed for it. What I see now is a business environment paralyzed by fear of the unknown election outcome and the “fiscal cliff” stalemate. Whoever wins, the unknown issues will likely be clearer in six months. But by then the accelerated write-offs will probably have expired.
In case you care, I have tentatively decided to vote for Mitt Romney, almost as an act of faith, because his tax proposal does not add up unless the mortgage interest deduction is eliminated which strikes me as highly unlikely.
But our country has survived four years of Obama and we will pull through if we have four more. Maybe he will move more toward the center since Bill Clinton has become his key political adviser.
If my assessment is correct, and with the stock market up almost 7000 points from its low in 2009 tends to confirm it, the country will be ok.
In the next two months we will have the opportunity to acknowledge our fear of the future yet make decisions that will help us cope with what will come our way. The pessimism and indecisiveness is palpable at this moment. The opportunists will take advantage of the moment.
Question: If Romney wins the election will you be more likely to invest in more equipment?
62 Comments
Very well written article, Its hard to find someone that can speak postive of both sides of the aisle. Well done.
Odd. Experience for small business with current admin. is good, Medical costs are adjusting down due to Obamacare in short term, and prob. in long term, and Romney’s plan will likely reduce mortgage deduction. But you want to vote for Romney. Talk about your counter intuitive…..
Do we plan to buy more equipment if Romney is elected? YOU BET!
We are holding our breath.
Fact is we did well under the huge printing press hand it out to everybody mentality of Obama but that nonsense fell off like a rock when folks started realising it wasn’t “FREE” money.
This year has been pins and needles and many of our customers (good sized ones too) are shaky at best.
We need change and this time real good change that actually works for Americans and for American business. Time we invest in real things not that “green” crap that was a flash in the pan and made money for politicians.
I’m from Illinois and I was smart enough to see what Obama was going to do to to the nation, just look at Illinois and Chicago.
BTW ain’t no way medical costs are going down. They didn’t last year for small business in Illinois they went up by 13% and another 15% this year. Most all due to Obamacare. This thing must be pitched out and something we can all agree to put in.
Try competition for one.
No way health care costs will drop unless you begin to ration care as Obamacare will do and cut services as it will as well. Just ask a VET if you want Government healthcare. They have the worst in the nation and it’s FREE!
And yes, the liberal media did Manufacture a President in Obama. The Manchurian Candidate indeed.
The answer to your question is no, but it would be no regardless of who wins the election, as I already bought the new equipment this past spring. Although Romney professes to be a businessman, he’s really a financial guy. He’s never run a real feet-on-the-street business, had to meet payroll, deal with personnel issues, worry about cash flow, or figure out if he can meet the competitor’s price cuts. Of course, neither has Obama. I think both Romney and Ryan are sufficiently removed from the real world that they can only deal with abstractions and theories. Of course, the same could be said about Obama. My concern is not so much of who wins the presidency, but what will be the make-up of the new congress? That is going to drive the debate. If Romney wins and the tea partiers gain strength in congress, it will be interesting to see if the cautious investor remains true to his historic, moderate self and ends up clashing with his own party, or just rolls over like George Bush lets them drive the country into the ground.
My health insurance premiums have risen almost 30% and my plans spending limits have been decreased since Obamacare passed….and it’s still not fully implemented !
I think it’s time for a new tax…..an illegal immigrant tax so medical costs and education can be paid for out of their own pockets. Since the federal government is fighting the states to keep the illegals here, we need a way to pay for them. We can’t keep printing money.
The country is just in the beginning stages of Obama Care. The program with all the attached non-medical junk designed to ruin the country doesn’t kick in until 2014. Heaven forbid that we should witness the full impact of this draconian program.
All of our customers are not pulling the trigger for new machine purchases until after the election. They all want a Romney win, and then they will buy. If he doesn’t, I shudder to think what the next four years will be like, and what we will be left with as a company, and more importantly as a Country.
Before I comment, a few things you say aren’t reality for my small business which is medical industry. Business isn’t better, in fact this year will be worse than last years sales. Our industry is very challenged. Our health care has gone up this year and the increases in the past four years are the largest our company has ever seen.
So what you say isn’t true nation wide for small business. I think we have turned a 2 year recession into 6 years. Our current administration can’t make a decision. You said congress and gridlock and it’s Bush’s fault. It isn’t! The economy has more to do with Clinton wanting 8 million homes in 95′ and Franks and Dodd creating the program for the poor that is bankrupting the world.
Going forward, whoever get’s into office has a huge fiscal cliff that I agree. One of seven stimulus programs are the result of Bush, this problem is Bush’s fault. Most long term debt was spent on short term needs, that’s an issue business people! Long Term money should be spend on buildings and equipment, not to meet payroll or welfare as is the case in government.
So government needs to participate in the recession. That won’t happen under Obama, but will happen under Romney. So to be honest with you, I think that I will spend after 2-3 years of Romney, but will probably sell my company under Obama, while some people and businesses will still have money. By the way, there is a world wide glut about to hit the USA, I have been telling you this for awhile, ah, wanna bet?
Gee Lloyd…guess you didn’t read my e-mail that you asked for. Obama has done nothing on the tax side besides extending the BUSH tax cuts that were put in place after the 9-11 attacks to get things going again because the economy was collapsing.
Are you still so naive that you don’t understand who this man is? Have you read nothing of his past and those who raised him and schooled him? Are so shallow that because you valued voting for the first black President to sooth your obvious “Rich White Guilt” so much that you would repeat that same mistake again in light of what this man has done in just 3.7 years?
Do you think that European style socialism is better than America’s once great capitalist system that enabled this country to become the worlds envy in just 236 years?
What Obama and now most of his party are attempting is to turn America into another European style Social Democracy as their first step towards a full blown Socialist/Marxist dictatorship. Have the programs enacted in Greece, Spain, Portugal, France and Italy been a success or have they destoyed their financial and economic systems?
Does the train have to run over you before you notice how close it is….or can look down the tracks and see it coming and get the hell out of the way? Sounds to me like your going to be “Rail Kill” shortly…..the sad thing is that all of you who will make this same mistake again will sentence the rest of us to that same fate!
Voting for Mitt, due to our idiotic electoral system, is a wasted vote in Illinois.
It has generally been my experience that nothing turns out to be as good or as bad as you anticipate. That may have something to do with the length of time you have to think about the event before it occurs. This campaign has been going on, I believe, forever. Everyone is worked up (except those few ‘undecideds’).
Even so, I don’t believe that Mitt Romney or Barack Obama, either one, have the power to bring this country down. Either one could doubtless do damage – many have done that before them. Warren Harding, Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon and certainly others, all have all caused problems, but the nation survived, healed, and moved on. I believe it will continue to do so.
Maybe we’re too big to fail?
I really don’t think you’ve looked at the two closely enough and your thinking the president doesn’t do much but is held responsible is just plain wrong.
The president directs the policy enforcement and can issue executive orders, as well as representing our country on the world stage. You ever see the senate or house having a nationally televised state of the union speech? No, because the public and the world could care less what they have to say.
I’ve worked 23 years of 6&7 day, 12-18 hour (with a few 50 hour days here and there) days to finally become the owner of my own business. Now, after 6 years of barely even seeing my family while giving the business my all I have the dubious privilege of having reached the top 1%!
And your guy has already promised he’s coming after me for more money. This, after insulting myself and everyone like me by telling me I “didn’t build this”.
I just looked at the federal taxes I’ve paid since 1990 and in 20 years and the total is 1,787,254 dollars! That’s an average of 77,706 dollars EVERY YEAR for 20 years.
I did all of this while around 70% of the working people in this country have not paid more than 12,000 in any year!
How is it that you can look at someone yourself in the mirror after voting for someone like Obama who demonizes the hardest working people in the country?
If this loser is re-elected I’ll have to lay off my employees and throttle down my business because I find it morally offensive to be financially supporting his socialist policies.
Obama (read Hugo Chavez or Jimmy Carter) pro business? Health care costs going down? Illinois must be part of some distant solar system.
LLoyd,
There you go again. Quote you: “If the President is re-elected, many people I talk to think it will be a bad thing for small business and manufacturing. But if you listen to his arguments, Obama is gung ho for small business and manufacturing.”
LLoyd stop listening!….you’re like an OBAMATON. What he says and what he (OBAMA) does are two different things! He was raised by his mom and like Bill Clinton, Andrew Carniegie and Lance Armstrong he will lie cheat and steal to win. For people like him it is all about winning at any cost and making mama proud!
I’m with the very straight talking Jeffery Scott who in the kindest of terms suggested that you remove a digit and start listening to reason not emotion. Or please just stay home and relax on voting day and if Romney doesn’t turn the country around in four years you can still say “I told you so”!!!
If Romney wins I could use some CNC equipment if he can somehow encourage banks to lend to folks like me.
Clayton Smith / Jax FL
My only hope is that everyone truly starts to think for themselves and stops believing what is shoved down their throats by the media waring factions and find some facts. Healthcare for all does not make you a communist. Supporting that is just the cost of being a caring human being. A more caring society fosters growth. The economy shut down…why? Wallstreet greed, pure and simple, not Obama. Following that would it have been better to let the country implode? Or to try to help keep things going, to keep as many people as possible working through the worst of it, until the dust clears? Read a little Thomas Friedman and perhaps gain understanding that the world is indeed flat. It’s time the USA population understood they need to become a knowledge based society. Job loss is hard, but protecting manufacturing won’t work – made in the USA used to mean something, but quality can be manufactured everywhere now and more cheaply elsewhere. The masses will buy what the can afford and Wallmart buys cheap (not neccessarily American). So take advantage of the fact that you are one of the lucky 1% of all the people in the world who have any of the opportuntities you are born to and be thankful, instead of crying that you can’t afford another car or a bigger house, or 100 pair of shoes. Bigotry, anger and ignorance are a recipe for failure, no matter how much money is in your pocket.
The equipment answer is Yes, but only because I think my business will be more likely to succeed under Romney. I typically purchase equipment based on demand but in the last year I did take advantage of the accelerated depreciation.
I too agree that both Obama and Romney are in support of small business. There are however major differences in how they will support business. If you take a look at how our government operates it’s like a Jekyll & Hyde. On one hand they offer incentives, grants and tax breaks. They then turn around and put up barriers that typically offset any incentives, creating more government bureaucracy to administer both sides. The result is more regulations, jumping though hoops, etc and it only gets worse. I believe Romney is much more likely to remove the barriers.
Health care is a major issue and my costs have gone up substantially. I educated myself on this very topic earlier this week only to learn that premiums are only going up, and faster. My agent was at a conference this week and was told premiums will double in 5 years due to Obamacare. We too have taken pretty drastic measures to offset costs and unfortunately had to reduce benefits. Nobody is happy.
I would take Romney’s high level business experience over Obama’s complete lack of it any day. Even if you say Romney is out of touch with small business at least he understands the difference between people that know how to be successful and have actually done it. Obama has surrounded himself with advisors that know the theory of business but not the practice, exactly why most academics could not run a small café.
If you are on the fence with Obama, answer this question – How can he campaign on his goal of making sure everyone has access to the American Dream and then condemn those who have achieved it? Bull sh*t “I did not build my business”.
His attack on success and the wealthy will cause much more division. Maybe some of these people actually earned what they have, and on that subject maybe wealth is not so bad, it certainly beats not having any people with money. Wealthy people either; spend their money, invest it, save it, or give it to charity. All of these are good but if you take it all away or give it to the government it will only be wasted.
Our most pressing issues (aside from the moral decay in the past 30+years) are: #1 our antiquated, complex tax system that nobody seems to fully understand. #2 the massive trade imbalance that exports wealth at an unsustainable rate. These issues are closely connected.
In 1960 there was only 1 major country in the world using a form of consumption tax (VAT or BAT) and the U.S. had balanced trade. Now there are roughly 150 countries who have adopted a form of tax that increases the costs of imports and rebates taxes to exporting companies. The result is that we are in essence funding the social programs (national insurance) of our trading partners while exporting nearly $1T every year. The U.S. has done nothing to prevent this and we are out of step with the world, in addition we do not enforce trade violations, we seem to want to play nice and we are getting our butts kicked.
To fix this – I’ll take a businessman over a lawyer and day….
Robin,
I’m sorry I had to return to this forum but somebody has to set you “plants” or FOL’s (friends of LLoyd) straight.
Didn’t Germany just balance their books? Are they into low cost manufacture? Does China grow like they have because of their excellent attention to clean air and water, the environment and their caring nature for their people?
Get real….the best way to empower a tree hugger (like you) is to give you a job and let you spend (waste) your money on saving snail darters…..perferably in China!!
Spend more than you make and borrow to make up the difference and you will kill the goose that layed the golden egg. And throw your book on the Keynesian economics away and go back and read Adam Smith! (no relation)
We can and better look to increase manufacturing to 20 or 25% and soon.
Clayton Smith
I wouldn’t vote for Willard “Mitt” Romney with a ten foot pole. Luckily for me, NH is one of those states that count this year. Our business has almost doubled since Obama has been in office, and we have made plenty of machine purchases under Obama. We will continue to grow and purchase under Obama.
I love Obama care, my daughter getting contraception for free (and no she is not sexually active, but it DOES help regulate her internal system). I loved going for a well visit for free, and why should people think the emergency room is a primary care doctor option if they don’t have insurance. Obama won’t ruin the country, or take your precious guns away. If you look at the facts, our largest deficits have been created by Republicans. Tea partiers are extreme and have no place in our government. Republicans need to get out of the politics of women’s bodies, and rethink what they stand for as one group. They alienate women, latinos, minorities and then wonder why they have such a hard time at the polls. Then they think the solution is too confuse voters by putting the wrong dates on latino voter registration cards in Arizona, and force people to produce ID’s even though they have no proof of voter fraud. Good luck all you Willard supporters. Obama is here to stay for four more.
I’m looking forward to my 20% tax cut and the extra business we’ll get with the additional 2 trillion in defense spending.
Being in the middle class and not owning a house (had to short sell it when I moved), I don’t have to worry about losing my deductions, I don’t have any.
It’s great, there will be more money for me, me, I, I and the poor stiffs in the middle class will have to pay for it (or get a job, darn freeloaders).
As “W” showed, deficits don’t matter. Go for it Mitt, let’s bankrupt this baby once and for all. If people have to rely on social security, medicare or medicaid, they’re just government moochers. Let’s dump all those darn social programs. Every rich guy for himself.
God Gail,
I just can’t get away from you FOL’s I try to leave and your pap pulls me back! Why should I pay to regulate your daughter’s internal system? You can have your bodies back when I can stop paying for them. You’re just another freeloading Obamaton!
Clayton Smith
Obama talks a good game, but his actions speak differently. I think the “recovery” has been despite his policies, not because of them. I don’t think our country can take another 4 years of $1T deficits and I know Romney has at least balanced budgets his whole life. Remember, the Senate voted down Obama’s budgets 0-99 (2X) and the House 0-414…Not a single Democrat voted for it. Why Romney doesn’t use this in the debates is beyond me. The national debt is a national security issue…The interest we already pay China is financing nearly all of their military will eventually consume the entire budget. The Fed is already monetizing the debt (i.e. printing money) which de-values the dollar and makes our exports cheaper, hence the manufacturing rebound and drives money into equities, hence the rise in the stock market and commodities. More so, it also raises the price of oil and is a hidden tax as our existing dollars buy less. Romney was a corporate turnaround guy and I’m hoping he can go into Washington and make the same tough decisions he made in the business world…That is, someone in DC needs to be an adult and say “no”…We can’t afford it. To play at that level, he also had to be a good negotiator and the man has seemingly led a pretty clean life…Had he not, the Chicago machine would have dug up the dirt by now. He was only a politician for 4 years and turned around the Olympics. I’ve never voted for a Republican for POTUS (or a Dem for that matter)…Couldn’t stomach either Bush I or II, Dole, or McCain but I’m actually going to vote for Romney. I’d like to vote for Johnson, but I think Romney has a chance is states that aren’t even on the radar yet…Walker’s recall election in Wisconsin showed the polls are not always right. The anti-Obama turnout will likely be tremendous and Obamamania is nowhere near what it was last year. Who is going to vote for Obama this time that voted for McCain last time? I don’t think the ruling class has any idea how pissed off the folks are and I think this is going to be a landslide.
I think the economy is feeling a boost and unemployment is edging down because small business owners feel that a change in leadership is possible. As hard as it is going against an incumbent president, decision makers in this country want to get ready for a new wave of business. You bet I’ll be buying more equipment!
Keep in mind, a lot of businesses did not make it through these last four years. For a long while there, I was getting tired of new auction notices every week. If you survived the recession, get ready for a big wave!!
No more or less likely.
We buy equipment based on how good buisness is and not who is going to be the next President or what policies might or might not be changed.
After 30 years in buisness I have come to understand that at best the President can only effect things at the margins.
Buisness cycles regulate themseleves and for the most part are caused by events outside of politics.
As a capitol equipment manufacturing serving the automobile and aerospace industries buisness has been booming for a year now.
We have been on a steady buying spree since the begining of the year and do not see things slowing down anytime soon.
I believe the country as a whole will take off over the next year regardless of who is elected.
You guys need to wake up.
The deficit in Bush’s last year was $1 trillion. But the economy was in freefall, losing 800,000 jobs / mo., the car companies were going bankrupt and the housing bubble had just popped. Not to mention, we were fighting two un-financed wars.
We were on the edge of a Depression.
But Obama turned it around.
Unfortunately, you can’t stop the Titannic on a dime, it takes time to wheel it around and get it going in the other direction.
Where would manufacturing be if we had listened to Mitt and “let Detroit go bankrupt”?
The deficit Obama’s first year was 1.8 trillion, and it’s been going down ever since. This year it will be about 1.22 trillion, back to where Bush left us if you don’t count the additional interest on the debt. Imagine where our economy would be if we actually had Republicans helping with a solution instead of plotting against the president?
Now look where the new captain of the ship wants to take us if he is elected, 20% tax cut across the board ($5 trillion more debt), $2 trillion in additional defense spending. And he’s going to pay for that by closing loopholes, reducing deductions and cutting social programs? Closing all loopholes and removing all deductions only saves $.75 trillion. Cleary Mitts plan doesn’t add up!
Bottom line, the reason most of you middle-aged white guys are so riled up agianst Obama is because he’s black.
The dems had both the Senate and House for FOUR years, two of them with POTUS and got Nothing done that helped America. The “great experiment” is done. We must move on.
I have been employed by a US machine tool builder for 12.5 years. We make pretty high ticket units. We are having a great year, and last year wasn’t too bad either.
The IMTS show last month was very good for us, the best during my tenure. Everyone I talked to felt the same. Most exhibitors were what can be described as “giddy”.
I remember what happened during IMTS 2008, the start of the economic slide off the cliff. Nobody was buying our machines then.
So, with the great environment we are enjoying now, do we really want to make a change to an unknown entity? Remember, George W. Bush was supposed to be great for our industry because he was a pro-business, ex- entrepreneur, Republican as well. Many of my co-workers lost their jobs and many companies in our industry went out of business after eight years of his leadership.
I would like to see today’s trend continue. Maybe it’s not in our best interest to change things now.
Wake up Gail, and you too Robin.
How have the two of you managed to isolate yourselves from truth, morality and justice?
I spent my early years in the housing projects, one of 3 children (the only son) born to a drug addict of a mother. I was given nothing and in return I asked for nothing. I learned on the job from the very bottom and gave my life to learning. You mention a “caring society” and I have to ask who you want them to care for? You? You’re a grown person. Care for yourself. Perhaps you should try caring for someone outside yourself.
The next generations of Americans will be saddled with YOUR debt. You may say you can pay it down now if you had MY money but that doesn’t address the root cause.
Lazy people feel justified in looting the fruits of their favorite victims, those who produce.
And become a “knowledge based economy”?!
Are you kidding? While people sit around telling each other how smart they are the actual productive elements of America (That would be the knowledge of actually PRODUCING something) leaves our country and empowers other nations. Those nations will, at some point come to believe there’s no reason they shouldn’t just take what they want when they want it.
I can’t believe morons like you both are actually allowed to vote.
You live in a fantasy world and should be given pretend ballots to go play with while the grown-ups do the work.
IN BUSINESS FOR 42 YEARS , IN TAMPA 10 COMPANY’S WENT OUT OF BUSINESS AND IN LAKELAND FL 12 COMPANIES WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. A LOT OF MY CUSTOMERS HAVE STATED THEY PLAN ON DOWN SIZING IF OBAMA STAY’S IN , IF THIS IS A TREND, UNEMPLOYMENT WILL BE OUT OF SIGHT . SURE I HAVE ALOT OF WORK, THIERS NOT THAT MANY OF US LEFT. LET ME TELL YOU OF A OBSERVATION . I GO TO GUN SHOW’S NOW AND THEN. FLORIDA HAS A LOT OF SHOWS, A YEAR AGO LINES NORMALY, AT 8 OCLOCK WOULD BE 1/2 BLOCK LONG, BY 9 OCLOCK THEY WOULD BE GONE. TODAY AT 8 OCLOCK LINES ARE A BLOCK LONG AND IF I LEAVE AT NOON THE LINES ARE STILL A BLOCK LONG AND YOU PARK 7 ACRES AWAY. PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF THIER PRESIDENT AND HIS PLAN’S . ANOTHER OBSERVATION WOMEN 50-60 YEARS OLD BUYING GUNS IF YOU DON’T THINK THIS IS TRUE, GO TO A GUN SHOW
If Romney wins.
YES YES YES
Each yes are for the orders I have sitting on my desk for equipment.
Romney is a fixer.
Obama is a spender at the rate he is racking up debt he will make George Bush look thrifty (and that pretty hard to do given his propensity to start wars and sign Bills that are unfunded like prescriptions for seniors). Another reason remember President BO is dying to bring Card Check legislation back, oh yes we haven’t even gotten into Obama care. Have any of you seen your premiums go down this year.
Really! 4 more years of the same will be very discouraging and I’m afraid for the constitution and country because the 47% will be on the fast track to become the majority.
Romney is down by 25 in Massachusetts and he can’t even get the Salt Lake City paper’s endorsement.
What’s it say when the people that know him best can’t stand the guy?
BTW, nice job by romney and Bain Capital moving another profitable company to China.
I guess Sensata’s 170 employees are now part of the 47% moochers in this country.
Wow, sounds like a debate on TV. Some facts, O started a war, TV anchor distorts fact, she apologized, not O. O’s comments on latest war casualties, “not optimal”! Biden says “bullets” are aimed at GOP?
Lloyd’s and lefties any thoughts here?
Why Lloyd did you remove my post from yesterday? I guess your organization isn’t into free speech and differing opinions is it?
Why Lloyd did someone remove my post from yesterday? Why doesn’t it surprise me that someone from your organiaztion, or you yourself, isn’t really into free speech and differing opinions! Typical for Liberals and no surprise when things start to go against you.
I apologize…..it just popped up so it was outdated….slow ass computer! Sorry for the mix up.
Gail, if you’re doing SO WELL….then why are you allowing your daughter to sponge off the Government? Do you have no self respect and what are teaching your daughter? How many “Obama-Phones” do you two have? You know your state moto is “live free or die”….do you not understand what that means?!
@MS…You’re so full of it…You need to turn off MSNBC – they’re nothing but race bating Obamamaniacs. How dare you call me a racist and it’s time you assimilate and become an American and not a Black American (or maybe you’re just a guilt-ridden caucasian). Until you do, we’ll never get out of this mess. I’d vote for Herman Cain, or Col. Allen West any day because I agree with their philosphy. I love Thomas Sowell, Star Parker, Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams, JC Watts, etc. because I agree with them. The Democratic Party (Linden B. Johnson was, in fact, a racist) has enslaved many Americans of African Decent to a life of crime and poverty. The “War on Poverty” has been a disaster and ironically has cost us about $16T, or the amount of our current national debt. You’re ancestors paid a very high price for you to get to grow up in this once great nation and your race has squandered the opportunity. Do you’re homework and look at the history of Dunbar HS in Washington DC before the leftists got a hold of it. Read Thomas Sowell’s book “Black Rednecks and White Liberals”. I can’t begin to defend Bush’s spending spree (and the wars aren’t included in the official deficit figures), but we know with Obama there are $1T deficits as far as the projections can see.
@ Robin…Detroit (GM, Chrysler) DID go bankrupt. The only difference was Obama gave the copmpanies to the UAW (and in the case of Chrysler to Fiat) and screwed the bondholders, threatening to sick the IRS on them if they didn’t go away quietly. Yes, I think the economy should have been allowed to implode. No bank bailouts, No Wall street bailouts, no Detroit bailout, No stimulus. Let the chips fall, and to be honest, my business may not have made it through. As to your “knowlege based society”, yes…we need engineers, scientists, mathmeticians, programmers, etc. Not the BS (and I don’t mean Bachelor of Science) degrees kids get today because by the time they get to college they are totally unprepared because on the leftist education system and because its party time. The reason the JOBS (a three letter word according to biden) went overseas is NOT the cheap labor. Its the currency manipulation, the subsidies, and the lack of regulation. You can build an identical factory in China for 50% of what it costs here. In 2010, there were over 2700 coal miners killed in China (and that’s just what they reported). On top of that, we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. We can compete on a level (or even slightly tilted) playing field and not that I want to start a trade war, but if we as a society have decided that we want to have all these regulatory agencies and that we’re going t let China manipulate their currency, the we need an across the board tarriff on a country by country basis to cover the additional cost of doing business here, but we’re stuck because we can’t bite the Chinese hand that’s enabling our addiction to spending. We need an intervention.
And not everybody needs to go to college. We need plumbers, electricians, machinists, mechanics, pipefitters, etc. all of which are good paying jobs and help make up the middle class.
@ Gail, Obamacare hasn’t even been implemented yet. How can you already love it? If you’re doing so well, surely you can afford a well-care visit and $9/mo. for your daughter’s contraception. As Kevin Bacon said to Tom Cruise in “A Few Good Men”…”Your boys are going down Danny, and there’s nothing I can do about it”. The election isn’t even going to be close even with the Democratic voter fraud. I’m not convinced Romney is the man, but I’ll take a businessman that has balanced budgets over a community agitator that’s never had a real job, let alone made a payroll.
Dear MS,
I’m riled up because Obama is half white not because he is black. What a stupid statement (to add to your other stupid statements) you made.
Unlike you FOL’s (friends of LLoyd) I wouldn’t care if the next president were a peglegged albino lesbian midget if he she or it could focus on the economy and jobs, jobs, jobs. More (German, Swiss type) manufacturing up to 20 or 25% of our GDP would do it.
Clayton Smith
Lloyd displays a wisdom too often missing in political discourse today, including the presidential debates. He even predicted that the Obama haters would turn on him, which Monsieur’s Scott, Richter, & C. Smith have done with a vengeance. My God, anyone who believes that the Obama administration is actively working towards a “full blown Socialist/Marxist dictatorship” leaves me shaking my head. Where does that come from? Must have read it on the internet.
Apparently the afore mentioned gentleman didn’t bother to read down Lloyd’s article to where he said he would probably vote for Romney. Just remember, this country is too big to fail.
@John Ramsey: While in the past I have criticized Lloyd for being a liberal, I did not this time in either of my posts. I was actually quite impressed and suprised that he was even considering voting for Romney.
Unfortunately, I do not believe we are too big to fail…I believe we are watching the fall of Rome before our eyes if don’t dramatically change course. We are still the world’s reserve currency, however there are moves underway to change that. Countries don’t go bankrupt, but once we really crank up the printing presses to monetize the debt, which is what every country eventually resorts to, we are big enough to plunge the world into a deep, dark depression the likes of which have never been seen.
Some interesting food for thought from some wise men:
“We can’t expect the American people to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have communism.” Soviet dictator Nikita Khrushchev
“I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.” — Thomas Jefferson
“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”… Abraham Lincoln
“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” — James Madison
“A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.” — John Adams
“There is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness.” — George Washington
“They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” — Benjamin Franklin
“[W]ith respect to future debt; would it not be wise and just for that nation to declare in the constitution they are forming that neither the legislature, nor the nation itself can validly contract more debt, than they may pay within their own age…” –Thomas Jefferson
@MS: I don’t know who they polled in Salt Lake City, but Romney is up in UT by an average of 41.25 and Obama is only up by by an average of 15 in MA, not 25.
As far as Sensata, it sounds to me like the employees are getting the shaft and I don’t think we should be exporting jobs, however Romney has nothing to do with running Bain. The key people running Bain are Joshua Bekenstein, John Connaughton, Paul Edgerly, Mark Nunnelly, Stephen Pagliuca, Jordan Hitch and Matthew Levin. The majority of whom are Democrats who support Obama.
What we are now exporting as a result of Obama, is coal. Coal that we should be burning here and using to power factories here and even to charge electric cars. But Obama has decimated the coal industry, hence why he’s going to lose WV, KY, and likely OH.
If Obama is allowed another term the only thing I will purchase , robots and lay off a dozen or so. That is if there is any demand. And I am not optimistic at all about the demand. I just hope and will vote that Obama is a one term President. Not because of his race. Just the poor way he has contributed to the demise of our Great country
Lloyd –
What is interesting is that neither individuals Obama or Romney in any of their talks or debates have mentioned the word manufacturing. They talk about jobs but don’t understand that it is manufacturing that is driving the economy as sluggish as it is.
Neither one took the time to attend IMTS-2012 – to see the technology that is making U.S. manufacturing competitive in world markets. (there were 100,000 manufacturing engineers, workers, and technicians at IMTS – guess they do not count only the financial people that contribuite to their campaigns) No wornder our young people do not go into manufacturing as a career. Neither are “God’s” answer to the recovery of our economy – but Obama is certainly the lesser of the two – he has done little to further manufacturing, introduced 73 adittional regulatory laws on manufacturing, increased the deficcit, increased health costs, and made it more difficult to get available financing. I will place my bets on Romey a business man – ever thou his background is more in financing than manufacturing – we need a change – business confidence continues to be a low point.
Hey Dan,
You need to get a clue, buddy. The reason coal isn’t being used as much is because natural gas is cheaper and produces less pollution. You heard of fracking. right? So if coal produces less pollution, it naturally makes sense that it would be less costly to burn as well (no need for expensive pollution control equipment). Power plants have been converting over to natural gas, that’s why coal companies have been hammered the last couple of years.
Another energy positive is that renewables, wind and solar, are becoming more prevalent. But that’s just a green energy thing guys like you disagree with.
Add it all up and its easy to figure out why coal is in disfavor. I guess we can ship it to China and India and let them pollute their own air and water, but eventually, we will be killing ourselves as well. You have heard of global warming and the oceans turning more acidic, right? Or is that just another liberal fallacy?
As far as Sensata goes, Romney is still a major stakeholder in Bain, but says he doesn’t have a say in how they operate for obvious reasons? Yeah, right! Mitt knows where all his money is stashed. Otherwise he would have been more transparent with his tax returns. It’s funny, Romney wants 10 years of tax returns to vet Paul Ryan, but offers up less than two for himself. That should disqualify him right there to be president.
Allen West? Who would want to be associated with that bigot?
As far as the deficit goes, you do realize that W left the country with a 1 trillion deficit his last year and an economy in free-fall, right? Obama’s deficit is mostly due to pulling this country out of the ditch and a continuation of the deficits Bush started. You do realize that defictis have been going down since 2009, right?
Finally, why is it the R’s have to sign a pledge not to raise taxes? Can’t they think for themselves?
Interesting that the last time we had a surplus was when Clinton was in office and even Reagan raised taxes when the deficit was getting out of control.
“ms” as in msnbc?
Clearly you’ve had too much coolaid and it’s clouding your vision.
Coal in the US generates electricity for 4 cents per kilowatt/hour. The renewables do the same kilowatt for 24 dollars! But it’s not even the same kilowatt because the coal generates any and every hour of every day instead of just when the sun is shining or the wind is blowing.
Fracking? Is this the same fracking obama’s epa is planning to set a new host of regulations on? The same epa which is going to have the power to regulate any body of water, no matter how small?
You sound like the same poor loser who is always using the “what do they have to hide” argument to invade another individual’s privacy. I heard statements like that daily while growing up in the ghetto housing projects.
I can see in your every statement you’d prefer socialism or communism. Why don’t you just move to a country where they practice it.
The United States is a Capitalist economy. Freedom for all should be the rule here and equal treatment under the law for all Citizens. I’ve worked with people who have lived under the soviet hand and now live in America. They would NEVER return to that life without a fight.
Are you another of those who are mystified by how Capitalism works? Do you have a 401k? Do you want it to grow? How can you expect to have someone else be held responsible for the growth of your retirement account while you attack them for theirs.
I spent my time working while my friends chose to have their weekends and holidays off. How are they entitled to what I’ve earned? Your party uses the word “fair” pretty often but I don’t see them practicing it.
How is it fair I pay 46% in taxes (after deductions. it it, in fact my net rate) and someone else pays 30%? Or 10%? Or nothing?
Where is my ‘equal representation”?
Way to go “ms”, the race card has been played. Funny how it’s never by the people who are using logic as an argument for or against something, it’s just the people the claim “tolerance and love”. Obama is HALF black, just as he is HALF white. To me he could be 100% Martian and it wouldn’t matter if he wasn’t driving the bus into a ditch. Quit defaulting to the race card when people complain about Obama, he was elected specifically because he is “black”. You can’t have it both ways or I guess you can, in your world.
I assume that a man who makes his living destroying American companies and hiding his money overseas will complete the destruction of the American economy and businesses started by the Bush and Cheney administration. Therefore we will be cutting costs, reducing cash outlays, and otherwise preparing for the Romney induced depression to come.
Kelly, I bet you were mad BP had to spend money to clean up the gulf. With you, it’s probably screw the environment, let somebody else clean it up.
Me, I’d like to go fishing and not have to worry about dead fish washing up, or take a drink of water without worrying about it lighting on fire due to fracking. Regulations are required, otherwise the unscrupulous will run wild to the detriment of everyone.
You do remember the financial bubble, right? I know people in Florida that owned 5 houses before the music quit playing. Would have been nice to have had a little requlation back then.
As far as the cost of coal goes, why don’t you ask the power companies why they are converting power plants to natural gas? My guess is that it is a lot cheaper to burn than coal, not some liberal plot to put coal miners out of work (and into the 47%). BTW, nice ad by Romney with the coal miners that had to punch out early and be a backdrop for Mitt. Wouldn’t want to pay them for something they were forced to do.
I do agree with you on this point however: “Freedom for all should be the rule here and equal treatment under the law for all Citizens.” The problem with your side is that you want the freedom, but you also want the freedom to tell everyone else how to live their lives. Whether it’s telling women what they can or can’t do with their bodies or telling employees how to vote.
Wow, you pay 46% in taxes? You need to talk to Mitt to learn how to reduce it to 14%. Maybe you could shelter it in the Caymans, or outsource a company or two? That seems pretty profitable.
So Bill, who’s your guy? You know, before romney? We all know that Romney is a default candidate, the anti-Obama candidate. Romney knows it too. That ‘s why he ran far right in the primaries and now is heading back to the middle. He’s got that Etch-A-Sketch thing going, but he knows your hatred of Obama is what will drive you to the polls.
Bringing up the race card? Wasn’t that Newt and Donald Trump’s deal (your heros) that first talked about the “food stamp candidate and birth certificates?
You guys are too funny!
ms
Interesting theories you have there. The reason nat gas is “cheaper” is because the government is interfering with the market. I don’t care how power is generated, I just want the market to decide, not some politician who holds office because he or she won a popularity contest. Some power companies are converting due to proximity to the resource, others are doing it because the government has become hostile to them.
What is it that makes you think some government fool can decide what’s best for the governed? You may think they’re smarter than you but I don’t.
You managed to fit in your poor friends in Florida you wish “regulation” would have saved. What about SELF regulation? I almost lost my house because I put everything I had into starting my business but it was a choice I chose to make. Your friends in Florida (and many of mine in California) signed contracts promising to repay the money they borrowed. When they weren’t asked for income documentation, they offered none. They rode into the contract along with the dishonest (and usually local) mortgage broker and were happy to do it at the time. There was nobody forcing them along their paths, they were willing, even eager participants. Offering more than something is worth and thinking the asset will always increase in value it a choice people make.
Now these people are chosing to simply walk away from a contract they signed and let someone else take the hit because banks don’t have faces like people do. You and yours are very quick to vilify anything you don’t understand when it’s in your interests.
Let’s talk about the freedom you mentioned. I could care less what any adult does or does not do, as long as they cannot harm others. I also want them out of my life. If you’re really so big on freedom why aren’t you helping defend people like me? Some years I’ve been in the 1% and in all of the last 20 I’ve been in the 5% and in every one of those years the government took more from me than others who made less and gave it to those who did not earn it. The EITC is a little game politicians play to get votes from the average. Something for nothing, who wouldn’t want that?
I wouldn’t. I don’t want anything I haven’t earned legally (according to current law) and while harming nobody and I don’t want anybody taking what I’ve earned and giving it to those who haven’t earned it.
You may have some picture in your head that I’m some rich dude who’s just been lucky or been given favors by the world and that makes it easier for you to hate me. The fact is I pulled myself out of the housing projects and have built my life through hard work and self education and dedication to my craft. These are things which hold no value to those I left behind.
You think this is “funny”? That’s because there isn’t someone robbing you every year.