Category Archives: Podcast

Ep. 121 – Finding Customers Through Great Networking with Jay Sauder

By Noah Graff

For the third episode of our season about how machining companies acquire new work, I interviewed Jay Sauder, owner of Sauder Machine in Plymouth, Ohio. Sauder makes a variety of precision components such as casings for mechanical pocket watches and wheel cylinders for horse drawn buggies driven by Amish people.

Sauder Machine has no sales team nor a social media presence, yet it has a diversified, profitable customer base that continues to grow through great networking. Jay Sauder told me about how doing great work and establishing great relationships with customers has been the fuel to keep his business rapidly growing year after year.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

 

Main Points

Jay talks about the origin of Sauder Machine. His dad started the business with his uncle in 1982 in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Jay is the fourth generation of machine shop owners in his family. In 2009 he started at the business and eventually took over administrative duties from his dad, who prefers to be working on machines to pushing pencils. Jay says when he started, the business had a lot of good customers, but his dad had not been charging some of them enough for various jobs to be profitable. (3:00)

Jay talks about his Mennonite background and how that has brought him Amish clientele. He grew up as Old Order Mennonite, a religious group with many common customs and origins as the Amish. He started driving a horse and buggy when he was 15 years old (he has only been driving a car for six years). Jay says the communities vary, but on the whole, Amish people are more conservative than Mennonites. Jay says he grew up with electricity and telephones in his house, while Amish people usually don’t have those amenities. Mennonites don’t have to have beards and don’t have to dress quite as conservatively as Amish. (5:00)

Jay says the commonalities and connections between Mennonite and Amish communities have brought Sauder Machine some important customers. Sauder Machine designed a hydraulic brake system for Amish and Mennonite carriages. The carriages already had brakes, but they were using cast iron rear cylinders imported from China, which were modeled after those on a 1941 light-duty Ford truck. Sauder’s wheel cylinders are made of anodized aluminum and are water resistant. The company also makes master cylinders. Since Sauder started making the wheel cylinders in 2012, it has produced 140,000 of them, which the company makes on an OKK CNC 500mm pallet horizontal mill. (7:45)

Jay says his company uses no advertising, sales team, manufacturer’s rep, or social media. The company has a single page website that Jay says has brought him a few RFQs in the past. He says his business connections and customer good will are his key getting new business. (10:20)

Jay talks about a casing for a mechanical pocket watch he produces. Amish people do not wear wrist watches, and some require the watches to be mechanical rather than battery operated. An Amish watch producer in Wisconsin had been been importing his casings from China, but he was looking for a supplier in the United States. He spoke with an Amish owned machine shop in Ohio that Sauder made parts for, and they referred him to Sauder. Sauder sent him a quote and the watchmaker immediately ordered 5,000 pieces, which Jay says he will make on the company’s INDEX C65 lathe. (11:00)

Jay talks about a 2% discount he gives every customer if they pay within 10 days. He says 90% of his customers take this discount, everyone from the Amish watchmaker, to steel producers and Parker Hannifin. (15:00)

Jay says the same principles that have grown his business within the Amish community have helped him in other spheres. He says that a steel company customer in Ohio refers new clients to Sauder Machine. Jay says he keeps the steel company as a middleman, rather than working with those new clients directly. This reinforces their cooperative relationship. (16:00)

Noah asks Jay, what advice he would give a new company who does not have an existing network of customers to bring it referrals. Jay admits that he does not have experience in this scenario, but he suggests to try a service like manufacturing.com to source work, which hopefully would start a network of more customers. (18:30)

Jay says since he took over the business operations of Sauder, he has had to go to longtime customers and dramatically raise prices because the company was losing money on various jobs. He says some of the customers left, but within a year they came back and didn’t even try to negotiate. He says if you do parts right the first time, customers are not going to want to go elseware. (20:30)

Jay talks about the negotiation process with customers. Noah asks him what he would do in a hypothetical scenario where customer came to him with target a price of $2.00 per part, while he knew that Sauder could actually produce the part for $1.00. Jay says his first instinct is to offer to make the part for $1.75. This way Sauder makes some decent money, and the customer feels good as well. He says however, that if later he is able to improve his process internally to make the part cheaper, the price of the part to the customer will often stay the same. Sometimes he might lower the price to strengthen a relationship with a customer or stave off competition. (24:20)

Jay talks about his constant reinvestment in his business. He always is concerned with upgrading equipment and taking care of employees. He says taking the right steps to do good work is one of the most important ways to keep customers and find new ones. If people know they can buy parts from his company and there won’t be problems they will continue to come back and bring him new customers. (27:20)

Jay says he likes to buy equipment (always used) if he sees fantastic opportunities—he does not need to have work for it yet. He says the most money he has ever paid for a machine was $140,000 for a Traub he recently bought, which might have cost 6 or 7 times that price new. He says he is considering buying his first new machine, a Mazak Multiplex, for a Parker Hannifin job. To make a part come of the machine complete he needs a machining center that can do probing, induction hardening, and grinding. He says he is not afraid about losing the job because he could repurpose the machine. He also says that large companies often make decisions slowly. He says a part Sauder makes for Parker took two years from the time it made a sample part until being approved for production. Then it took another year to make one change on a print. (29:40)

Noah asks Jay to tell him something he learned last week. Jay says he learned he can draw out a solid piece of steel rod cheaper than the price of tubing by using an Iscar SUMOCHAM drill. He says the material cost is about $.60 cheaper. Jay says his philosophy is “live and learn, crash and burn. If the tool doesn’t crash you’re not pushing it hard enough.” (32:45)

Question: Is word of mouth the best way to find new work?

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Ep. 120 – Constantly Quoting Work with Wes Szpondowski

By Noah Graff

On today’s podcast we continue our season about how machining companies acquire new work. Our guest is Wes Szpondowski, plant manager of Wyandotte Industries, a multi-spindle job shop near Detroit that predominantly runs good old ACME-GRIDLEY screw machines. We interviewed him  last week when he came to Graff-Pinkert to inspect an ACME 1-5/8” RB-8.

Wes says one of the keys to Wyandotte’s success is that the company is constantly quoting new jobs. He says even if a machining company only lands a small percentage of work it attempts, persistent quoting gets the company’s name out, which leads to more work down the road.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

 

Main Points:

Wes gives some background on Wyandotte Industries. He says his grandfather started the company, specializing in producing custom nuts. In the late ‘90s the company branched out into more diverse and complex parts. (2:00)

Wes talks about Wyandotte’s constant search to find employees—talented, reliable people who want to run older cam screw machines. He talks about a young guy he met at working at a deli counter the day before, who he invited to apply for a job at the shop. (6:00)

Wes says Wyandotte’s mantra is “quote, quote, quote.” The company has an internal sales team that works with a number of manufacturers reps working on commission. Then Wes works with the internal sales team to quote the jobs. He says because the company is so aggressive in seeking new jobs, it gets its name out there, which brings new opportunities to make a lot of different parts. (8:00)

Wes says that it doesn’t matter how lean a company is or how clever its manufacturing operations are if it doesn’t do a good job of getting new work. He says he has seen many shops that are “better” than Wyandotte who went out of business because they didn’t know how to get new work. (10:10)

Wes reiterates that it’s important for as many buyers as possible to know who your company is because sometimes the suppliers they currently have fail to get the job done. When that happens they come running to you. (11:00)

Wes says manufacturers reps are useful because they represent diverse clients. The clients aren’t supposed to be competitors of one another, but the reps have interesting networks that can bring them new business. For example, a manufacturers rep might represent a forging company or cold heading company and those connections can lead to new clients. (12:40)

Wes talks about competing with Chinese manufacturers. He says nowadays the quality from Chinese suppliers is often pretty good, but the delivery from China is still a big issue, particularly if companies in the US are trying to keep low inventory. (14:00)

Wes Szpondowski of Wyandotte Industries

Wes talks about the advantages of running ACME multi-spindles, which he characterizes as “reliable tanks.” He says Wyandotte likes CNC lathes as well, but unlike CNC machines an ACME can run forever. He says ACMEs put Wyandotte at a good price point that many shops can’t compete with because the machines are cheap and can crank out large volumes of parts. He says as long as a shop can have the people to run them, ACMEs can lead to getting a lot of jobs. He says it’s difficult to find good people to run the ACMEs, but he jokes that once the people learn how to operate the machines the job is actually a lot of standing around for pretty good money. He also talks about the simplicity of repairing an ACME, comparing it to repairing a classic car vs. today’s models. (16:00)

Wes says Wyandotte tries to supply to a diverse customer base rather than only auto companies because that work is too unreliable. (19:45) 

Wes says Wyandotte is constantly evaluating which jobs make sense financially. If the job isn’t making money, the company is not afraid to ask customers for more money. (22:00)

Wes debates buying a machine for a specific job vs. buying equipment on spec for future work. He says that he will take advantage of opportunities for great deals on used equipment that come up if he knows he has the talent already in-house to run it. But, he says he doesn’t want to buy million dollar machines like Hydromats, or Buffolies or CNC multi-spindles because those aren’t who his company is. He wants to use some sophisticated CNC equipment but still wants to keep the operation somewhat simple, so it’s reliable. He says that more complicated machines require higher priced, skilled people to run them. (23:50)

Wes says the biggest challenge he has for getting work is having the right talent to produce it. If he doesn’t feel his people are good enough to produce the part he won’t take the job. (31:30)

Question:  Is running quality ACME screw machines a good business plan right now?

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Ep. 119 – Minimizing Your Customers’ Pain with Federico Veneziano

By Noah Graff

Today’s show is the first episode of a multi-part series about how machining companies acquire new work. 

Our guest is Federico Veneziano, CFO and COO of American Micro Products Inc., a precision machining company in Batavia, Ohio. Federico says one his key strategies for getting new customers is proving to them his company will minimize the problems that are bound to occur in most manufacturing jobs.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

 

Main Points

Federico talks about how the selling process in the machining business has changed in the last few years. He says there are fewer face-to-face meetings now, but he still prefers the traditional human touch. (3:20)

Federico gives an overview of American Micro. The company is located in Batavia, Ohio, just outside of Cincinnati, and it was founded in 1957. It mostly focuses on turning, but also does milling. It makes parts for the automotive, aerospace, and defense sectors, along with a little bit of industrial and medical. American Micro’s workforce fluctuates between 150 and 200 people. It has also had a factory in China since 2005, with around 100 employees. (4:20)

Federico came to the United States in 2004, working for the machine tool builder DMG. He did technical support and service, process engineering, and sales, which gained him a lot of knowledge of machining companies and cultures around the world. He worked on American Micro’s Gildemeister GMC35 CNC multi-spindles, which eventually led to him coming to work there. (6:40)

Federico hates to say it, but aerospace is one of American Micro’s most significant markets, so it has been hit hard by the current troubles of the commercial aerospace industry. The company has had success doing specialized automotive parts such as fuel diesel components and parts for steering pumps. Defense is becoming one of the company’s most important sectors. He says the medical industry has been harder to penetrate because it requires a company to have established contacts already in the business. (8:20)

Federico says one of American Micro’s strategies is to stay in markets it already knows well so it can provide good service to customers. The company uses databases and other resources to find potential customers and then contacts them via phone or email. If a job seems like it has potential, the company tries to set up a meeting to do a presentation, where sales representatives talk about the added value American Micro can provide beyond just price. Federico says he tries to identify potential customers’ pains and then come up with solutions to their problems. He says this is the key to getting new jobs. (10:30)

Federico Veneziano, CFO and COO of American Micro

Federico reiterates that it’s important to make a value proposition beyond a good price per part. He says the constant emphasis today of customers choosing venders exclusively on the basis of price is diluting the value of manufacturing. He says price pressure causes work to go overseas, which creates new complications that sometimes make parts more expensive than if they were made in the United States. He says it worries him particularly when some sectors move overseas, such as aerospace and defense because a drop in quality could have dangerous ramifications. (13:30)

Federico says meeting customers in person is important for American Micro to get to know them and understand the problems they are dealing with.(15:35)

Federico says it’s important for salespeople to have a technical understanding of jobs so they can set realistic expectations for customers. He says in the past there may have been enough margin that even if suppliers couldn’t reach their promised results, they could still meet their customers needs, but that usually isn’t possible nowadays. (16:40)

Federico says in China getting work is an entirely different process than in the United States. It usually consists of an online bidding process. However, he says that model doesn’t necessarily apply to American Micro because foreign companies in China usually do work for other foreign companies, not Chinese companies. This enables some personal relationships. He says payment processes are totally different in China than in the United States. (19:00)

Federico discusses the negotiation process for machining jobs. He says the process depends on whether a product is ongoing and established or if it is a new product. If the product is already being produced by someone else, a buyer will either offer an expected target price or they will ask the supplier to propose a price first to see if they can get a better deal. Federico says he thinks it’s best if the customer starts out by giving their target price because if the target price is dramatically different from what a supplier can offer it will be a waste of time to try to make a deal. Also, he says if everyone is pushing as hard as they can to get the best price possible it will hurt the market as a whole. Every deal will become based on price, rather than important value added services and longterm relationships. He says it can be a problem when traditional salespeople do the negotiating because their commission might be their only concern. (20:20)

Federico says American Micro uses manufacturer’s reps, but in a controlled framework that has been quite successful for the company. Its manufacturer’s rep has technical knowledge and has an intimate relationship with the company. American Micro has an exclusive agreement with its manufacturer’s rep, so for a specific service or part he can only represent American Micro, rather than working for several companies. He says the exclusive relationship is necessary, otherwise the rep will become a quoting house where he has the power to choose between several companies who gets a job. He says traditionally a manufacturer’s rep receives 3-5% commission for a supplier or customer. Even after the manufacturer’s rep makes an introduction, American Micro still has to make its pitch to a customer to get the work. He says to him it’s more difficult to get new work than get a new supplier (23:30)

Noah asks if American Micro prefers to buy equipment before the company has work for it or wait to acquire the work first and fill the need with a machine. Federico says it’s great if you can get jobs for equipment a company already has. He says if American Micro buys a machine for a specific job, it needs firm long-term agreements in place to insure the work for the machine. However, he admits it can still be risky, so it’s important to have knowledgeable people making deals, increasing the likelihood jobs will be executed. He says 15-20 years ago, long-term agreements were less common than today. (29:30)

Federico projects 2021 to a be a decent year for American Micro, but it’s important to the company that aerospace makes a comeback. Based on the company’s market research he thinks in August the sector will ramp up. For other sectors he is bullish. He was surprised that automotive was not hurt significantly by the pandemic in 2020. (31:30)

Federico says he thinks small and medium manufacturers should collaborate more, rather than always fighting for work. He says constantly fighting for work causes a lot of jobs to be decided only by price, which hurts the quality of parts in the overall market. He says companies should instead divide up work based on each company’s strengths, rather than every company trying to hoard all the jobs. (32:40)

Question: Do you prefer to buy a machine before you have any work for it, or buy equipment only when you have a job for it?

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Ep. 118 – Coping with Stress at Work with Darcy Gruttadaro

By Noah Graff

Today is the final episode of our series about mental health in the workplace.

 

Our guest is Darcy Gruttadaro, Director of the Center for Workplace Mental Health at the American Psychiatric Association Foundation. Darcy’s organization works with companies of all sizes, giving them tools to support the mental health of their employees. She says that having a warm and social atmosphere in the workplace is more important than ever to keep people relaxed during these stressful times. 

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

 

Main Points

Darcy explains how her organization works with employers of all sizes to develop programs, tools, and resources to support the mental health and wellbeing of employees and their families. (2:30)

Darcy talks about how she got into her profession. She has family members with serious mental health issues. She was a lawyer and had worked with some hospital clients related to their psychiatric units, work that she found interesting and important. She moved to Washington D.C. to work for the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), doing policy work mostly related to the public sector. She then joined the American Psychiatric Association Foundation, where she works with private employers to improve their mental health programs. (3:40)

Darcy says in the two and half years before COVID-19 hit in March of 2020, the number of companies taking an interest in the mental health of their employees was growing. However, when COVID-19 came into the forefront of people’s lives, the interest of companies in the mental health of their employees increased dramatically. (5:00)

Darcy Gruttadaro, Director of the Center for Workplace Mental Health

Darcy says that her organization provides employers with support around raising mental health awareness, eradicating stigma, and breaking down various barriers that stop people from getting help when they need it. It also works with employers to develop strategies to build a more mentally healthy company culture, so employees feel more safe getting mental help when they need it. Finally, it works to make mental health therapy accessible. She says most health insurance provides access to mental health care, but it’s important for employers to help employees navigate the mental health system, which is often complicated. (5:50) 

Darcy compares the mental health issues faced by people who are mandated to work at home to those faced by people mandated to work in factories during the current pandemic. She says since March of 2020, the CDC has been collecting weekly pulse data showing that nationally the number of people experiencing symptoms of anxiety or depression has tripled. (9:30)

Darcy discusses data that shows many people prefer not to work at home because they find the social connection with colleagues in the workplace to be comforting. On the other hand, she says many people go to work feeling anxious about COVID-19 but hide their feelings from colleagues and employers because they think they will look weak or flawed. She says when people allow negative stigma to prevent them getting the mental help they need it can lead to suicide. She says openness to talking about mental health in manufacturing environments is not prevalent enough. (11:10)

Darcy says that depression impacts women at a higher rate than it impacts men. She says she thinks it’s likely there is greater risk for substance abuse among men working in physical jobs, who may be using alcohol or painkillers to cope with pain suffered on the job. She says the stoic culture of people in trades such as manufacturing makes it less likely that they will get the mental help they need, but she admits she is not sure what research has found in this scenario. (13:20)

Darcy advises that business owners and leaders not be afraid to show some vulnerability to their employees because it can make them feel more at ease with their own mental issues. Also, it helps for leaders to simply tell people they realize the difficult and stressful times everyone is going through. She says it’s important for people to get professional help as soon as possible, because the longer people allow mental health issues to linger, the greater toll they take. (14:50)

Darcy talks about traveling through Texas where she saw an entire crew at a construction site stretching together before work. She talks about a utility company that had workers do group meditation to quiet their minds, help them focus, and prevent injury. She says management taking time for employees to do self-care activities demonstrates to them it cares about them, which has positive effects on moral. (18:00)

Darcy says during our current stressful time period it is more important than ever for people at work to be social with one another because people by nature need social connection. She prescribes that managers reach out to employees working remotely via video teleconference to tell them that they know they are going through difficult times. Even if people role their eyes or poo poo the gesture, it still makes employees feel cared about. (19:20)

Noah asks Darcy her predictions about widespread mental health when the pandemic is over and things “get back to normal.” She says there will be some strong concerns about mental health for at least three years, particularly for kids or teens, whose lives were drastically disrupted in 2020. However she says that after this difficult period people may have also developed resilience to difficult situations and learned new coping strategies. She says it will be important for managers to remind employees how they have weathered the storm together but still need need to stick together. (21:30)

Darcy talks about mental health in several different countries. Canada has voluntary workplace mental health standards that employers are asked to follow, which California is currently trying to emulate. In the United Kingdom the Royal Family has taken an interest in creating organizations that support workplace mental health. (24:00)

Darcy says to her the word “happiness” means feeling settled, feeling like you’re contributing to the world, having purpose, and looking forward to every day (26:30)

Noah asks Darcy what she learned last week. She said she relearned how much work (and fun) it is to get a new puppy. (27:00)

To learn more about the Center for Workplace Mental Health at the American Psychiatric Association Foundation go to workplacementalhealth.org.

Question: Do you prefer working around a lot of people, or very few people?

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Ep. 117 – Mental Recovery with Dr. Ari Graff

By Noah Graff

On today’s podcast we are continuing our season about mental health.

Our guest is Dr. Ari Graff, a psychologist at the Shirley Ryan AbilityLab, a nationally ranked rehabilitation research hospital based in Chicago. Patients come to Shirley Ryan to recover from severe illnesses and injuries. Dr. Graff’s job is to help patients mentally heal from the emotional trauma that comes along with being damaged physically.

The opinions in this podcast episode are solely those of Dr. Graff. They are not on behalf of the Shirley Ryan AbilityLab.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

 

 

Main Points

Noah introduces Dr. Ari Graff, who happens to be his older brother. Ari has been a practicing psychologist for the last 14 years. He has a private practice doing therapy mainly with adults, and he also has been working at the Shirley Ryan AbilityLab for 11 years. The Shirley Ryan AbilityLab is a rehabilitation center for people who have suffered severe illnesses and injuries such as strokes, brain injuries, spinal cord injuries, and amputees. (2:30)

Ari is the psychologist of Shirley Ryan AbilityLab’s outpatient clinic. Patients there are in the process of intense rehabilitation, often doing physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy. (4:00)

Ari says he sees around half of the roughly 150 patients who attend the clinic throughout the week, usually seeing patients only once for an hour. Sometimes patients request to a see a psychologist, but often they are referred to him by their rehab team or a physician. He says often he is the first mental health specialist patients have ever worked with. Generally they are not expecting to speak with a psychologist because they have been focusing all of their energy on their physical recovery. (5:20) 

Ari says it surprised him at first how much impact just one hour-long session can have for patients. He says they get a chance to feel understood about what they are going through. They learn about what to expect from rehab. They also hopefully gain a better understanding of their own mental state. (6:40)

Ari says a common issue rehab patients have is that they don’t feel like they are in control. Becoming disabled is difficult for people to adjust to. One thing Ari tries to help them cope with is the uncertainty whether they will recover from their current disability.(9:00) 

Ari says he tries to make people focus on the things they have control over rather than what they can’t control. He encourages people focus on their diet, sleep, and ability to manage stress. He encourages people to try to understand their condition and limitations. He also suggests to patients to communicate with their doctors and health providers to understand the recovery process and to advocate for themselves. (10:00)

Ari says it’s important for him to educate patients about what to expect during the rehabilitation process. He says after a stroke or injury to the brain, the brain needs time to recover. Research says this recovery usually happens in six months to a year, so it’s important for patients not to feel frustrated when they are not back to normal quickly. He says it’s important to give people hope as well as realistic expectations. (12:00)

Ari talks about the mental recovery for people who have been injured on the job. He says those people might have anxiety about going back to work. It’s important for them to process their feelings about how they were injured and process feelings of blame for coworkers, as well as blame for themselves. (14:00)

Ari talks about people he works with who are recovering from severe cases of COVID-19. Some people suffer the effects of being on ventilator for a month or two. Some people are weak or immobile after being in bed for a long time. Others suffer brain injuries if not enough oxygen gets to their brain. People also suffer psychological trauma from the illness, particularly if they were not able to see their loved ones while in the hospital. (15:00)

Noah asks Ari if he has advice for people whose coworkers are exhibiting mental health problems. Ari says some companies have employee assistance programs that provide some limited mental health support. He says it’s probably tricky for a coworker or boss to help another worker seek mental health support. (18:00)

Dr. Ari Graff, Psychologist at Shirley Ryan AbilityLab

Ari compares talk therapy with prescribing medication to help people with their mental health. He believes both methods of therapy can be helpful if administered the right way. He says people should not assume that prescription medication is being abused. He says that sometimes for patients he sees at the rehab center, opioids can be very helpful for them during a physical therapy session when their pain would otherwise be so excruciating it could hinder doing their rehab exercises. (19:00)

Ari talks about helping his patients manage their pain. He says that pain is not just a physical experience. It’s a cognitive experience, an emotional experience, and even a spiritual experience. He says research has shown that negative thoughts and emotions have the power to increase pain while positive ones can alleviate it. He uses therapy methods such as mindfulness and meditation, which can help people observe their thought processes about pain and then start to make shifts from a negative to a more positive and realistic thought process. (22:00)

Noah asks Ari if everyone could benefit from therapy. Ari says he thinks most people could get something out of therapy, but there are a lot of different types of therapy available, so people need to find their right fit. He says it is important for people to attend to their mental health the same way they attend to their physical health. (24:00)

Ari says to him the word “happiness” means contentment, fulfillment, and purpose. He says that most people desire a sense of meaning in their lives, not just joy. (26:00)

Ari says people in recovery need to know that they can find value in themselves, even if they have limitations. He says our culture emphasizes measuring people by how much they can produce and achieve, but people need to know that we all have intrinsic value. (26:30)

Ari explains mindfulness, which is an important method he uses in his therapy. He explains it as non-judgmental attention to our present experience. It’s a way to be, without trying to fix or do something in the moment. He says it is important for people to be aware that they can still find value in life—take some downtime for pleasure, interact with family members, etc., while still working toward their big goals. (27:00)

Ari concludes by saying that people should not see their medical problems only as a setback. He says the people who cope the best with their problems are those who look at their situation as an opportunity to learn or grow from. Instead of only seeing their injury in a negative light, its helpful for people to try to find the positives they can get out of it. (28:45)

Question: When has therapy helped you or your loved one?

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Best of Swarfcast – John Habe IV on Valuing a Machining Business, Parts I & II

By Noah Graff

Today’s podcast is a “Best of Swarfcast” from Summer of 2019, a two-part interview we did with John Habe IV, President of Metal Seal Precision, a machining company based in Mentor, Ohio.

Over the last several years, John has grown Metal Seal Precision both organically and through major acquisitions. According to John, growing through acquisitions can be financially rewarding but does not come easily. John discussed the difficulty in buying companies, which often have emotionally attached owners. He also talked about how he calculates the buy price of a company. He looks at cashflow, often called EBITDA in the acquisitions business, as well as criteria such as product sector, customer diversity, and management style of the current ownership.

Listen to Part 2 on your favorite podcast players, or follow the links below to listen to both parts! listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.


 

 

CLICK HERE to listen to PART 1: Ep. 41 – John Habe IV on Growing a Machining Business through Acquisitions

CLICK HERE to listen to PART 2: Ep. 42 – John Habe IV on Valuing a Machining Business

Question: Is this a good time to go into the machining business? If so, what sector?

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Ep. 116 – Mental Health in the Machining Business with Jackie, owner of PXR Machining

By Noah Graff

Today’s podcast is the first episode of a new season about mental health. Our guest on the show is Jackie, owner of PXR Machining. Jackie spent the majority of her life trying to mask a significant part of herself from others and deny her own feelings about who she always knew she was. Through therapy she finally gained the courage to transition from a man to woman in her late 40s.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

Main Points

Jackie talks about her CNC machining company, PXR. She started her first plastics machining company back in 1992. Over the years she has designed and machined a variety products in the plastics sector from tabletops, to signs, to gun smithing tools, one of her most steady products these days. Her shop features CNC routers and CNC mills such as the Fanuc Robodrill (pictured). (3:00) 

Jackie talks about a brutal motorcycle accident she had 15 years ago at age 35. She spent three years in a wheelchair, yet continued to run her business. Then a friend of hers was going to get married, and she decided she was not going to go to the wedding in a wheelchair. Her right leg was mostly paralyzed, so she needed an orthotic foot device in that shoe to keep her foot from flopping around. She fabricated one for herself in her shop in one day. (6:00)

Jackie talks about first realizing she was a female trapped in a male’s body at four years old. Her grandmother asked her what she wanted to be and she said she wanted to look pretty like mom. Jackie’s parents then had a serious talk with her to clarify that she was not a girl. (9:30)

Jackie said she first thought about undergoing a sex change when she was 17, while working at Radio Shack alongside a trans woman, but she was too scared to do it. Instead, she got married the next year, with the hope that if she built a family and a successful business she could bury her feelings of being a woman stuck in a man’s body. Sometimes that worked, but she says after the motorcycle accident the walls came down around her and it was very visible to her that she had “hid herself from reality.” (11:00)

Jackie, Owner of PXR Machining

But somehow Jackie then managed to bury her painful feelings once again. She had just gotten remarried a year before and was planning to have another child. She also wanted to get her shop going strong. Jackie says she wishes during those three years in a wheelchair she had gotten a therapist, but she had been turned off by the stigma of getting one and instead tried to “DIY” her mental health. She says she finds it interesting how most people will take care of their physical health when they get hurt, like getting a cast after breaking a leg, but when they get a mental injury they to try “walk it off.” (13:31)

Jackie talks about constantly trying to overcompensate for her knowledge that she was a woman on the inside. She owned a restored Dodge Charger that was a replica of the General Lee from Dukes of Hazard. She owned 10 motorcycles and the biggest pickup truck you could buy. But later on, after she came out as transgender, friends told her they had sensed her secret for a long time—she could never actually have hid what was going on inside. (15:30)

In her latter 40s Jackie hit a wall. She says she had lost all the fire in her belly that tells a person to do things. Her shop was suffering, her home life was suffering, her mental health was suffering and she knew she needed help. She joined an online forum for trans-support and the members told her to get a therapist. (16:30)

Jackie says getting a therapist was the most important pivot point for making improvements in her life—it finally got her to start the transition process. (17:30)

Jackie talks about her current relationships with family members. She works alongside her father in her shop. She does not talk to her sister often. Her 30-year-old daughter is starting her own machine shop right now, and they share a bond with that. She has a teenage daughter who lives with her mother (Jackie’s ex-wife) who understandably has had difficulty with the transition. (18:30)

Jackie says the first step in a transition process is to get a therapist. Her therapist eventually told her to go to a medical doctor to start hormone replacement. She decided in therapy she was interested in getting a lot of surgical procedures to make her look more feminine. She says everyone has different preferences of what they want to get augmented or reconstructed. Jackie has had her breasts enlarged, facial reconstruction, vocal reconstruction, and “downstairs surgery.” I asked her if it was traumatic to look at herself after her organs were swapped out. She says she was finally able to look at herself in the mirror and say, “that’s actually me.” (21:30)

Jackie says the transition took her about three years and that hers was a relatively quick process. She says some people can do it faster, but other transitions can take over 15 years. She says she continually saw her therapist during the process, which she likens to going through puberty rapidly. She says getting rid of facial hair is one of the most difficult parts of the transition process. It can take years of electrolysis. Another change she has had to get used to is having less lean muscle mass because she has less testosterone. Now she can’t lift things around her shop like she used to. (23:30)

Jackie says despite transitioning to become a woman, she still is attracted to women rather than men. (29:30)

Jackie says she feels people have core personalities that are just us, but we all also have masks. She says she pulled her mask over herself so people would see only what she wanted them to see. But now that she has let the mask go she finally gets to see who she really is, along with everyone else. (30:15)

Jackie says her advice for people who need to alter their life or deal with things that require a lot of thought is to see a therapist—they should ignore the negative stigma and stop trying to DIY their mental health.

Question: What was one of the most difficult changes you had to make in your life?

 

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Ep. 115 – Treasure Hunting, Swarf, and Sliders with Noah Graff

By Noah Graff

Back in February I had the pleasure of being interviewed on the MTD Podcast, an excellent podcast about machining in the UK. Hosts Joe Reynolds and Giovanni Albanese grilled me about a lot of our favorite topics featured on Swarfcast, like treasure hunting, reshoring, Trump, and Swiss CNCs, which my British counterparts often call “sliders.” 

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

Main Points

I explain the origin of “Pinkert” in “Graff-Pinkert,” our used machine tool company’s name. It comes from Aaron Pinkert, my grandfather Leonard Graff’s cousin and business partner. (2:10)

I explain to my hosts how I got into the machine tool business and journalism. Back in 2005, my dad, Lloyd, lured me to work at Today’s Machining World with the idea of making streaming videos to accompany the magazine’s print content. It was a good idea, but it was one or two years before Internet broadband was good enough for it to be practical. Meanwhile, I honed my writing and editing skills working on the print magazine. In 2011, when Today’s Machining World became an all online publication I joined Graff-Pinkert, becoming a machine tool dealer (AKA treasure hunter). We continued to develope todaysmachiningworld.com and created Swarfcast in 2018. (3:00)

I elaborate more on my chosen occupation title of “Treasure Hunter.” I explain that my job as a used machinery dealer consists of combing the earth for valuable assets. “Treasure hunting” seems more romantic than “buying and selling dirty, oily, old machine tools that people don’t want anymore.” Giving myself the title reframes the essence of the occupation, making it more fun and interesting. “Treasure hunting” also relates to the serendipity factor of my job. Often I go into a shop to look for one thing but find something entirely different that is more valuable than what I came for originally. (7:20)

We talk about the CNC Swiss market in the United States. I tell my hosts that if you can find a good used sliding headstock machine from the last 15 years you’ve found treasure. It’s the number one item Graff-Pinkert’s customers are asking for these days. (10:50)

Noah Graff, Host of Swarfcast

I explain that none of the experts we have interviewed on Swarfcast have given us an actual example of reshoring in the United States—only anecdotes of people quoting work and theories saying that the stars are aligned for work to come back to the US. I mention a podcast in which we interviewed Yossi Sheffi, a supply chain professor at MIT, who told me it is impossible for a lot of manufacturing work to leave China because companies there already have a vast ecosystem of intertwined suppliers and vendors. (12:00)

Joe Reynolds asks me how I think Joe Biden’s presidency will effect US manufacturing. He asks if I think he will be an advocate for manufacturing like Trump. I admit to my hosts that though I loath Trump, when he was elected, Graff-Pinkert’s business got an immediate boost. I explain that it’s pretty typical for American business owners to feel happy and confident when a Republican is elected President. I explain that Trump made manufacturers’ lives easier with his tax bill and relaxed environmental regulations. Many manufacturing company owners felt confident in his policies and energized because they felt they had a president on their side. (15:30)

We talk about why a lot of Graff-Pinkert’s customers, many in the Swiss machining business, had their best years ever in 2020. This was partly do to opportunities in the medical field relating to COVID-19. Though we also know of many thriving Swiss shops, making products unrelated to COVID-19 such as dental implants or components for eye surgery. (20:00)

We talk about social media’s significance in the manufacturing business. I tell my hosts about one of Graff-Pinkert’s clients who says they have gotten business from posting instagram blooper videos of parts they had to scrap. (24:20) 

I brag to Joe Reynolds that Today’s Machining World has been referring to its editorial content as “Swarf” since its inception in 2000, which was prior to the creation of MTD CNC’s YouTube channel “Swarf and Chips.” (30:20) 

Question: What events led to your current career?

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Best of Swarfcast – Ep. 25 – Brett May on Keeping Screw Machines Relevant

By Noah Graff and Rex Magagnotti

We interviewed Brett May of BME Inc. Screw Machine Attachments for today’s podcast. Brett’s mission in business is to make old cam multi-spindle screw machines like National Acmes, Wickmans, and New Britains into productive money makers in today’s competitive machining environment.

Scroll down to listen to the podcast with Brett May.

Brett builds unique attachments which eliminate secondary operations that many people would put on a mill-turn CNC to finish, or run on an accurate but achingly slow Swiss-type machine. When he does his magic he turns supposed clunkers into enormously valuable machine tools.

Brett sees an old Acme and visualizes value, where others see a candidate for the scrap heap. As part of the BME value proposition, he also rebuilds multi-spindle machines, particularly National Acmes.

Question: Have you given up on non-CNC equipment? Why?

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Ep. 114 – Live Tooling and Accessories for CNC Swiss with Jim Gosselin

By Noah Graff

Our guest on the podcast today is Jim Gosselin, owner and President of Genevieve Swiss Industries. Genevieve Swiss sells innovative accessories specifically for Swiss CNC lathes, such as live tooling and cutting tools, to combat the problems small parts manufacturers constantly deal with.

Scroll down to read more and listen to the podcast, or listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts or your favorite app.

 

Main Points

Jim gives an overview of Genevieve Swiss. He says the company’s mission is to make the job of the machinists easier. If machinists have the right tools to get better efficiency and quicker setups then machining companies will be more profitable. (2:30)

Jim says he was always interested in mechanical stuff from a young age. He liked to take apart his toys as a kid to try to understand how things worked. He dropped out of high school in his Junior year and went into the military where he became a combat engineer. He summarized that job as “building things and blowing things up.” (3:00) 

After getting out of the military, Jim got a GED and took college courses at night. He worked at a machining company called Savage Arms in Westfield, Massachusetts, that made shotguns and other hunting equipment. In 1983 he became a programer and ran the new Citizen CNC machines that the company purchased. The machines had 2 turrets with 5 stations each, with cross drilling and milling capability. He says those machines were not actually sliding headstock. Rather, they were sliding guide bushing machines. The turret and the guide bushing slid together on the machines. (4:00)

In 1987 Jim became an applications engineer and salesperson at Brookdale Associates, a Citizen distributor in New England. In the late 1980s Brookdale Associates began building high pressure coolant systems for Swiss machines. He says before then, high pressure pumps were not used for Swiss turning. The company also sold a line of accessories, including tool holders for Swiss machines. In 2002, he and his colleagues traveled to Switzerland where they began a relationship with PCM, a company that sold high quality live tools. Jim thought that Brookdale would distribute PCM’s tooling, but it was a difficult year for the machining industry, so his boss didn’t want the risk of taking on a new product line. He told Jim if he wanted to start his own company he supported the idea and would be his best customer. That was the start of Genevieve Swiss. (5:45)

Jim says that when he started Genevieve Swiss he realized at the time that many Swiss operators were getting older and they were burning out because the Swiss machining process caused too many headaches. He decided his company’s mission would be to make Swiss machinists’ lives easier by supplying them with products that enable faster setups and better cycle times. (8:00)

Jim talks about developing gear-driven head live tools for Swiss machines with PCM. He says that prior to gear-driven live tools, typically live tools on CNC Swiss machines turned at 4000-5000 RPM for cross drilling or cross milling. He says this wasn’t efficient for end-mills that could be as small as a diameter of .020” or .030”. The slower turning speeds caused burrs and slower cycle times. The new gear-driven heads produced 3 times the output as the older technology. (9:25)

Jim talks about the products Genevieve Swiss sells. The company sells accessories specifically for Swiss machines such as live tools and cutting tools. It sells arbors for slitting as well as coolant that is specifically designed for high pressure delivery. He talks about a thread whirling head for a Citizen L20 that is designed to have coolant flow right through the head and then delivered to the cutters. (see video above) (10:30)

Jim says that chip control problems are one of the most significant hurdles for Swiss operators. He says often in medical work that uses difficult metals like 465 stainless, chips can come off the machine like ribbons. Genevieve Swiss is working with its insert tooling supplier UTILIS to sell laser ground chip breakers. (see demonstration video below) (12:40)

Jim talks about insert tooling developed by UTILIS in which coolant flows through the tool and is focused on the tool tip. (17:00)

Jim says most of the Genevieve Swiss’ innovations come from listening to customers on the shop floor. He says the company talks to customers and distributors to find out what machining problems operators are complaining about. (20:00)

Jim compares the construction of older Swiss CNC machines to those of today. He says that Swiss machines used to have heavier castings to achieve rigidity. While today’s Swiss machines are built with lighter castings, Jim says they are designed more intelligently based on factors such as stress analysis, which enables them to stay ridged. (21:30)

Jim says the incorporation of lasers is one of the most interesting recent innovations on Swiss machines. Lasers can do cutting, milling, cross drilling, and knurling. They also enable welding two parts together while still on the machine. He says though 3D printing is slow right now, it could be a disruptor in small parts manufacturing one day. He brings up a scenario of a Swiss machine that also incorporates 3D printing. (22:30)

Learn more about Genevieve Swiss at Genswiss.com.

Question: What are the biggest challenges you run into running CNC Swiss machines?

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