From “a_young_guy”

“I received this comment from a young machinist as a response to my blog from last week, “Is the Skills Gap Just a Pay Problem?” at 1:37 AM Sunday morning. What do you want to say to “a_young_guy”.Lloyd

“I am just turned 24 years old in September of 2012. I program, setup and run 3X HAAS ST 10 Live Tool C-Axis Lathes, (with no Y=axis). The turret is huge, the tool holders are huge, and the space is very limited, but it does not stop me. I know the haas control like the back of my hand, I program in both metric and inch so fast that the control can not refresh fast enough for me, I have to wait for the control to refresh some times. Im the guy running upstairs and explain to the engineers why holding a cross hole at 1.98mm +.01mm -.00mm (.00039 inch total tolerance ) is not going to happen and not very practical on a production run of 500 – 1000 small parts. I drive solidworks 2012, solidcam 2012, mastercam x6 on the side. I understand GD&T and I can hold a pair calipers. I get a priory list from my boss, I order tools, manage work flow, plan the job, program it, set it up, prove it out, fine tune it, back it up, make tools lists, work instructions, inspections sheets, first articles, you name it, i do it, i make it idiot proof, train the idiot button jockeys, track the paperwork, first article and traceability, mat certs, po’s, w/o’s…

I have never crashed a machine, not once! I rubbed a live tool holder once, and stopped it before it even got damaged. I am on a salary of $1700 every two weeks, $1400 after taxes.
I take home $2800 after taxes every month. I work 6 days a week, 12 hours minimum, this comes out to 288 hours a month. $2800 clean cash per month / 288 hours per month =3D $9.7 per hour…

I have many 21 hour days under my belt. I dont drink, I dont smoke. I work, study, sleep and repeat every day. I have zero social life and no commitments outside of work. After 12 hours of work I come home to my room and bathroom that I rent for $650 a month, and I crack open Machining and CNC Technology by Michael Fitz patrick, and CNC Programming Handbook by Peter Smid.

Im looking forward to that day when my brand new screw machine paid for in cash comes in, and I will be able to work for myself, at a very easy and comfortable pase, making an insane amount of money, and no stupid operators or the stupid waste that comes with every big company to deal with. One screw machine, in my hands, running one medical part, could make me a few million a year. All i have to do is prepare my self. One screw machine, one temperature controlled room, one part, and I will make more money then most job shops dream off. I dont think I will have to wait a long time to retire if I start making that type of money.

Until that day I will work as hard as I can, learn as much as I can, take on any machining challenge, just for my experiences sake.”


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45 thoughts on “From “a_young_guy”

  1. Mike Polizzi

    I am a 46 year old business owner who has been in manufacturing for over 24 years.
    I spend most of my time looking for a young person such as the one who is mentioned above. I would love to hire him and help make his dream come true sooner than later. It is intelligent, focused young individuals such as him that we need in this industry (and I can’t seem to find them).

  2. clayton smith

    What a great guy. The trouble is there are guys just like him in China and they are not making anywhere near $ 10.00 and hour.

    I think his only recourse is to start his own business and why not. The banks will lend him as much as he wants and the medical people are standing in line just waiting for the one perfect item that hopefully he will invent (oh yeah only about ten percent of patents make any money and now getting a patent for medical devices and going through testing and approval is ever so much easier under Obama) and make so economically that they will stop buying from anybody else.

    Maybe he should have listened to his cousin Sydney and become a lawyer or better a community organiser.

    Good luck Dude or should I say Bon Chance and welcome to France!

    Clayton Smith

  3. Paul Merandi

    I would like to think that “from a young guy” is everything he says he is. If that is so then I think he should get his resume ready and possibly be prepared for a life changing move until he can afford his dream machine.

  4. Mad-Hungarian

    LOL! Maybe take a spelling and a grammer class… Oh, if it were only that easy!
    The only problem with this scenario is: A larger customer is not going to give out a million (even a ten thousand) dollar order to a man with one machine. Your machine could break, you could get run over by a train (heavens forbid), or you may just not want to come to work one day.

  5. Joseph Magdic

    Very interesting comments. I don’t understand why you would be salary. I am no legal expert but you should be entitled to overtime. Anyone who runs a machine, even if you go out there and just push a few buttons, cannot be considered exempt from overtime. It doesn’t even matter if your title is management. If you help run a machine or set up the machines you should be getting overtime for all of those extra hours. I would find a new place to work where they are not crooks.

  6. Bret

    It seems as if this young man has a plan and a goal in life. My first suggestion to him would be to practice up on his written communication skills. The big companies that you want to deal with to become a “millionaire”, want to work with someone who can communicate clearly. If you go in with misspelled words and jumbled sentences, it shows that you are sloppy and don’t care. Your first impression (whether in person or in writing) will open or close doors. It’s hard to open those doors that have been closed because of first impressions. One other thing that I would suggest, use a little humility when describing what you are capable of (first impressions again). It’s admirable that you are confident in your abilities, but if you act like you know more than the people who are paying your salary (whether that’s your boss or the company that your making the product for), you won’t be working for them very long. People who design products are very proud of the work that they have accomplished and they don’t take criticism very lightly. You have to learn how to communicate issues/concerns with the product that you are manufacturing so that the designer will buy off on the changes that you are suggesting. You have some lessons to learn and over time you will get there – one of them being that every true machinist has crashed a machine – some crashes being bigger than others. Trust me – it’s going to happen.

  7. Andrew S.

    What this young man writes about is unfortunate. The reality is, if you are not getting paid what you are worth, you need to find a different job. The guy is making less than a lot of “skilled” McDonald’s workers make. Getting the experience is great, but money is great too. He needs to find a place where he is appreciated and paid what he is worth. That is the problem with a lot of companies in this world, they are greedy and do not want to pay the people that do most of the work, a fair wage. If you aren’t getting paid what you deserve, look elsewhere for work. There still are quite a few companies out there that pay people what they deserve.

  8. Chris Wilson

    Where is he located? Sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders, problem is today, he is one in a million. I have a guy like him and I do anything to keep him. He has no higher education and no professional training before he came to me out of high school. If I could find more of these kinds of guys I could cut my work force down and be able to pay them higher wages. Since I don’t have more of them I cant do that. I am lucky to find guys who can pass a basic math test, and that’s even the guys who are making $15-$20 an hour.

  9. Randy

    God Bless Him, keep that drive and ambition. Remember that you get into business to create a customer though, having the machine doesn’t mean that it is loaded up with work to make you that millionaire. It will not be rainbows and daisy fields, but it will be worth it. Capitalism at its finest should be the end game for a young man like this that wants to be an entrepreneur, if the government doesn’t get in the way in the meantime….

  10. Randy Lusk

    Oh were that simple. I think it was the mad hungarian that pointed out the obvious issue with the make a million plan. There is a lot more to it than hours put in and machine expertice especially in the medical environment. It is nice to run up to the engineers and tell them they can’t get that off a production machine, but that does not mean that is not what they need. So I’d figure out a way to find some life within your busy schedule and figure out where you will find fulfillment within the machining opportunities. There are always other employees, engineers, supervisors that will challenge you weither you are on the shop floor or in the corporate office. Maybe you should see if for your own benefit you can take a PI or DISC assessment and find out what you are hard wired for. Not all great machinists are very good managers, even fewer of them are good teachers, even fewer of thos have any idea how to run a business and deal with customers that don’t pay, banks that want collateral and a government who wants bigger and bigger shares of your “millions”, not to mention the regulators at state, local and federal levels that won’t let you use the oils or materials that allow you to cut the tough stuff anymore.

    Take a nap dude and find a business owner that will take you to lunch and share a bit more of the challenge than you have experienced so far.

  11. Joe O'Toole

    If “a_young_guy” can truly do all that he says and is as smart as he must be to do all of those things. why isn’t he smart enough to:
    Put his resume out and get out of poverty.
    Demand overtime.
    Use a text editor with a good grammar/spell checker.

    Heck, if he’s that good, I’ll pay him $50/hr. under the table and buy the Screw Machine and let him run the profit center.

    Like the China man said, “Sum Ting Wong.”

  12. Bill Hoover

    Here is a good worker. And here is an example of why not to get in this field. This trade should be making $20/hr minimum for people who can setup, run, and trouble shoot. We can’t find people like this because most times we won’t pay them enough to start. You get $9-10/ hr to work counter at Burger King; no chance of losing or breaking of fingers, slivers, or cracking skin due to coolant,or have to pay for your own measuring devices. Start them at $15/hr with possibility of $20/hr within 30-60 days and you will get some good ,smart, common sense people.

  13. tom

    Not to be snide, but that young man should march into the owners/manager office outline what he adds to the PROFIT of the company how he outperforms everyone else, and inform them how it’s going to be. Layout what you want in terms of pay benefits etc. Give them a week to decide, even challenge them to hire someone even close to your skills. If your accomplishments are as good as you say you will have no problem finding employers eager to profit from your abilities. NEVER BLUFF, if you say you’ll walk if conditions are not met to your satisfaction, then you damm-well better be prepared to walk! If the current employer is to dim to know the value you add, odds are they never will.
    Remember that oft cited women make 70% of men, when asked employers said women didn’t get as large a raise as men because…….wait for it….they didn’t ask. At review time the company offered XXX and the women accepted, the men countered, argued, pointed out how much they added to the bottom line, and threatened to quit. Result, an extra 1-2% over coworkers. That 1-2% year over years adds up.
    NEVER undersell yourself, if you really do more, demand more. No one is going to give you anything for free (except your mom).

  14. Patrick

    Bret and Randy nailed it……A+ for ambition but C- for humility
    Also, using “I” and “I’m” at least 35 times in such a short letter suggests self-centered behavior…..something few employers seek in an employee.
    Typical youngster who thinks he knows everything and everyone else is an idiot.
    Maybe he should concentrate on world peace or curing cancer since he is so gifted!
    One machine, one guy, one medical part and MILLIONS of dollars?
    Damn, I wish I would have thought of that!

    Sorry to tell you this kid, but you sound like an arrogant lawyer or Doctor.
    Now go crash a machine so you get smarter!

  15. Norman VanSpronsen

    He needs to broaden his skill base (more machines, more programs) as much as possible, and then find a partner who may not know machinery but knows how to run a business. Then they can start their own business and harness all that energy for their own profit. Let me stress, a partner who knows BUSINESS, ‘cuz most techies don’t.

  16. Tony Metcalf

    All I can say is good luck kid. This is coming from a 30 year old shop owner, in business for 5 years last month. You dont know long hours until you try to upstart a shop from scratch.

    Theres alot more to a business that just “makin parts”. When your boss lets you start handling the accounts payable and the bills then you might start to get an idea of whats really going on. Its easy to order material and tools when you are spending someone elses money.

    As far as his current situation goes, he needs to move on. He doesnt say how long he has been working there or in the trade for that matter. But if he has that much responsibility there and is the only shop hes worked in he needs to move on and find another shop to get some more experience in. You cant be single faceted in this trade and expect to get anywhere. When I left my first job in a die shop I went to a production house and got experience with bar feeds, indexers, and new cutter technology. That complimented the die shop knowledge I had already gained and gave me an edge over the shops that only ran high volume production or the ones that only did 1’s and 2’s.

    To the guy who said no 24 year old can be that skilled, Im living proof. I was building dies before I could legally drink. I had over 7 years shop experience when I was 24. But I also had a couple of older friends who had started small shops a few years prior to me. So I was able to learn some of the ins and outs of the business side of things before actually jumping in for myself at 25 years old. It hasnt been easy but I would rather have done it then than when I am 35 or 40 and have a wife and kids to worry about.

    Oh and if you do go into business let us know when that screw machine goes up for auction, I may be in the market for a low hour screw machine by then 😉

  17. Dominic

    I would tell a_young_guy to suck it up. He didn’t state in his story anything about going to college – so by my assumption he chose the “world of CNC manufacturing.” Its a business were labor is a dime a dozen, Like another person commented he is being taken advantage of with no overtime compensation. He should find another place to work and showcase his many talents. I have a BS degree in Film and Video from the premier college in the Midwest and I am currently working at a CNC shop – I started day #1 not knowing anything and now hold the title of Production Coordinator. I like the work and feel that I am very good at, but I dont make what a college graduate should make. I have a student loan and car payment and I scrap by every month – and I dont make what he does – so he should be grateful. There are millions of people in my position – people who are over-qualified for the work they are doing – but they are working and getting by. Like Lloyd stated last week a Shift Leader at McDonald’s makes 14$ a hour – maybe he should do that or stop complaining and find a better employer. Its a tough time and those that have work should not complain – deal with it and find something better –

  18. Joe

    I see lots of long replies here, so I’ll keep my advice for him short.

    If you’re willing to work 12 hours per day, 6 days per week – find a job that will pay you a good hourly wage and overtime, with benefits (health insurance, etc). You’ll make FAR more money than the pipe dream of owning one machine and doing business on your own.

    As it is, you need to talk to your current employer about the overtime situation ASAP. A salary of $1800 every two weeks would work out to $3800 every two weeks at hourly + overtime, 6 days a week, 12 hours per day.

    If you want to be a real dick about it, he’s liable for ALL of the overtime you’ve already worked and haven’t been paid for. But you’ll probably put him out of business in the process.

  19. Dick Crosby

    Sometimes I hate being a contrarian. But! Is this guy for real? If so, for God’s sake, somebody buy him his damn screw machine, get him out of that shop, support him while he gets started, get a robot to replace him when he falls over from exhaustion, and tell him to take a break and smell the roses. His life isn’t worth the effort at the moment.
    Someday run him for president, fire the cabinet, the czars, and congress.

  20. Gerald Balk

    @ Dave,
    No 24 year old is that skilled? Really? Where have you been working all your life? I was running my own company at 24 skilled in not just cnc turning but also milling and over the last 19 years it has been my aim to continue learning, over the last few years cnc Honing and more recently cnc Grinding not to mention all the management, sales and marketing skills that have also had to be learned, I say this not to boast as is the impression I’m sure most people got from this and the above post but to simply demonstrate that there are some very skilled people out there further more I know others that have started as young.
    As to some of the other comments, do you not remember what it was like to be young and full of enthusiasm? Give the lad a break yes for sure he needs some more experience don’t we all? And anyway life has a way of giving all of us a good slap occasionally to bring us down to earth and yes I have learnt from some very expensive and sometimes embarrassing mistakes!!
    All I can say is good luck!

    Gerald Balk

  21. Joe Landry

    I call Bull#$%&*.

    If he was that good and that smart, he would be making more money and he would know his plan won’t work.

    We start guy’s that don’t know much pretty low. ($10.00 per hour) But the guys that can do what we need make between $20 and $30 per hour, plus benefits, plus bonuses.

    We take a chance everytime we hire someone, and we require that they take a chance with us. If your not willing to make an investment to come to work for us, we are not going to make an investment in you.

    We employ some of the best machinists in our area. They are all young, talented and agressive. I don’t think you could pry any of them away with a crowbar.

    Money is not the only thing they look for. They want flexibility, security, a nice working environment and the opportunity to excell. We provide all that and more.

    The trick is not to just pay more, it is to offer more.

  22. Stephanie S.

    Hmm… I don’t know much about this young man so I’m totally going on my gut, but I’m guessing he’s either Swiss or French (or perhaps German) and has been trained – at least in part – outside of the US. What he says he knows and how he presents himself leads me to believe that this may be the case as I’ve had the privilege of working with young people from abroad who come to hone their skills and gain additional business experience in the US who also present themselves in this way. I may be completely wrong about this specific individual, but what I know for sure is this – that young people like him have a PASSION for this work and this industry unlike anything I see in the majority of our workforce here. And in the few cases where we do see this PASSION we often try to squelch it because we find these young people “uncomfortable or difficult to manage”, so we made them feel unheard and unimportant – leaving the door wide open for them to go to another employer, or worse still, another industry. I’ve personally seen it happen over and over. Unless we do something different, we’ll miss the boat on bringing these passionate “go-getters” into our organizations. And that, friends, would be a shame. So then, the burning questions become… what fuels the passion behind these young people, how can we encourage it in others coming into the industry and what can we do to improve our management style so that we can embrace these folks and their confidence but still mold and grow them within our organization and industry?

  23. John Otto

    If you aren’t doing something about it don’t bitch about it, and if you look at it from the employers perspective, with Obamacare looming in his horizon, better get use to it. We are currently a bunch of Socialists – didn’t you get the memo?

  24. Tom

    As an old girlfriend once told me if you don’t shoot you won’t score.. To be young with no committments. Personally, I think the thing that will be his undoing is the hit the Lotto mentality. Slow and steady many times wins the race. I’m not sure getting a screw machine to start a business is the best plan.. This means you’ll be competing on volume. I think I was starting a business, I wouldn’t attempt to compete against Wallmart on the first day. Find something complex and low volume.. Nothing that the big boys want to mess with and too complicated for the average Joe to do.

  25. Jerry Fair


    Like a few have stated, this guy is not for real! I know people pretty well and find his story
    hard to believe. Not only is what his employer doing to him illegal, no one would put up with
    it, either. He probably is a good enough kid in what he does (or is not a kid at all), but he is pulling your leg and trying to get some free publicity that he can show off to his friends! Trust me, someone with that kind of talent would not be in the position he pretends to be in!

    You need to save this for April 1 and re-run it for the joke it is!

  26. John "Jack" Frost

    There are some unique points about this young man. His grammar indicates he is recently from possibly Germany or Switzerland. He is a product of a very fine apprentice program and is over here on a special work visa (would have better knowledge of work rules and overtime). He is not bragging it is what he is proud to say he has learned. He may also be chinese or Japanese with the results of their educational system. His understanding of metrics indicates he is not an native. He probably works for a stingy uncle or he is a hoax created by somebody with a perverse imagination. Thankx for the laugh. Jack

  27. Bob M

    I respect this kid. Good for him for working hard and trying to make something of himself. Shame on his boss for being a slave owner.

    I have read some of the comments on here and I can only laugh. Can’t find anyone, no one can pass basic math skills, blah, blah, blah. A vast majority of you guys (not all) are probably like this kid’s boss; cheap and only look at the bottom line and the here and now.

    Why not start developing your people. I have seen many a shops’ training programs. Here it is, here is the ON button and “good luck”. Develop your people, teach them, train them, praise them, and reward them. Show them how to do it more than once, or twice. Say Good Job every now and again. Give them a raise. 25 cents / hour more is not much, but out of the blue raises now again go a long way for moral and keeping people motivated.

    Before some of you guys jump all over my comments, sit back and think about when you were young and had that boss who did that. How did it make you feel? Pretty good to be recognized? Little bit harder work the next day? Yes it did. So get out there and fire your people up instead of kicking them in the butt. Show some interest in them and they will show interest.

  28. skeptic

    If this kid was as smart as he thinks he is, he wouldn’t be working his ass off night and day with hopes to pay for a quarter million dollar machine in cash sometime down the road and then land some dream contract with a large medical company. While nice to hear about a young guy (or any guy) going above and beyond at work, his email illustrates a lack of understanding of the industry, of the economics of time, and of basic financial concepts.

  29. Tyler S

    I am struggling with this article on many levels. Perhaps our writer is a diamond in the rough, perhaps this is a “publicity stunt,” or, perhaps, just another dreamer with no true desire or capability to do what it takes to make that leap and achieve success. One article makes it impossible to know.

    Dear writer, I hope you take the time to read this comment as well… learn from my lessons.

    My generation and its immediate contemporaries are not the same generations that built this country. My grandfather always instilled upon me that it takes two generations to build something and the third generally destroys it. As the third, and unquestionably an admirer of both my father and grandfather, that’s something I took to heart.

    Today’s socio-politically charged environment doesn’t encourage what made this country. It encourages mediocrity while demonizing the success of honest/general hard labor with an extra special loathing for the small, honest entrepreneur. At least, that is, until it makes for a great media story or reality TV show.

    So why do the masses want to be the boss while simultaneously demonizing the success of the boss? Is it the same reason the masses spend all day tweeting every action they make… or is it to satisfy that insatiable hunger for success while bettering his/her self financially and by doing so feeling that pride of bettering their families, their communities, their counties, their states, their countries, and world as one honest piece of the puzzle?

    I think most of us in business have come to acknowledge the fuel of today’s workforce … and most are as riddled as terrified by it. But that doesn’t mean that we have to accept it. We are morally obligated, and must, for our current success to continue, drain the tank and refuel!

    If you really are what, and who you say you are (which I hope), develop the plan and make the leap. I can understand if you wrote this in frustration… we all need to blow off frustration, it’s healthy. However, take from these responses the simple truth that you won’t earn your place at the table with words, only action.

    I am younger than you, I am not rich and famous, I am constantly reinvesting my money and time into my business; advancing myself modestly and living on the bare minimum to keep my suppliers paid.

    Don’t be the aspiring business owner fueled by emotion alone. thinking that just because you have a business people will come because you “know better” than the guy you currently work for. Be fueled by advancing yourself and the advancements you can bring to others. Accept humility. While cockiness may get you up the ranks a little in the shop, there is no place for it at the table.

    Life is what you make of it. We are both paying our dues. How you accept this payment reflects upon you. Be careful what you say and how you say it… and listen more than you speak.

  30. Richard Rudy

    Congratulations, Lloyd! You are among the few superannuated writers who are able to write convincing dialog that is purported to come from the lips of a 24 year old. Right down to the overheated bluster and misspelling! Could one person be so capable, talented, earnest, dedicated, self-centered, overworked, so careful about some etails but not others, overqualified, under-appreciated, arrogant, and underpaid? Too cute, too convenient.

    Good way to elicit powerful comments, though. And, of course, that’s the whole idea, right? I’m as willing as the next guy…

  31. Lloyd

    Ricky, I only wish I was that clever to have written that email and disguised it so well. After I read it initially, I wondered if it was a fabrication and sought to authenticate it. But I could not. Then I figured “so what”, it’s too juicy to leave as the 24th blog post on an old piece so I decided to feature it. Pretty good editorial choice, don’t you think?

  32. Peter frow

    If the “young guy” is not a virtual person and if he really is that competent and underpaid, then he might have figured that his boss being on the ‘Todays Machining World’ mailing list might recognise him and give him a raise just to hang on to him. This is the kind of ‘street smarts’ that could just help a young man succeed were he to run his own business.

  33. Emily Halgrimson

    I can vouch for Lloyd’s claim of authenticity here. As a staff member and Web Manager at Today’s Machining World I can assure you that the comment was real.

  34. Peter Frow

    There’s the old adage. “Six munce ago I cudn evn spel injunere and now I are wun.”
    In the world of engineering no-one cares too much about grammar and syntax as long as one can do the job.
    Oh, and I apologize for the lower case ‘f’ in my previous post.

  35. John Bacsik

    As a young machinist myself (24 yrs old), I can say that going from being in a classroom to being thrown into the world in the middle of a hurricane (i.e. helping my mom save our family’s machine shop from going under in ’07 after my father fell ill) has taught me one important thing about life and people… That lesson is that humble humility is valued over anything else, especially in a machine shop where cocky arrogance can lead to thousands of dollars lost in terms of machinery crashes, destroyed tools (especially CNC tools where you pay an arm and a leg for just inserts alone most of the time), and ultimately bad relations between other co-workers. I head Quality Control and setup, program, operate, and perform electrical and mechanical maintenance and repairs on our two Mori Seiki CNC turning centers. I had nobody who had the ability to teach me so I was forced to learn on my own, my first toolbox was a trashbag with a brand new set of Mitutoyo Digimatic SPC 8″ calipers and Mitutoyo 1″ IP65 Coolant Proof Micrometers and a book on inspection and gauging and the Machinery’s Handbook 27th Edition from J&L Industrial Supply. Now, my tools are much better and my knowledge is well over 100x what it was 5 years ago; but, I still acknowledge that there are and always will be those who know more and have more experience that I can learn from. Also, coming from a predominately screw machine shop, those hopes of making millions with one screw machine are quite far-fetched. The thought that you can buy a used screw machine that is in pristine condition is feasible, but it takes more than just being able to read a book to keep those things rolling smooth. I know because I watch my dad do it every day now that he is better from his illness. He has been running Brown and Sharpe screw machines, multi spindle Acmes and Conomatics for over 40 years and there are still times when he runs into problems both big and little. I don’t mean to preach, but my advice to this kid is humble down and learn everything you can from the experienced machinists who are willing to share their knowledge (I don’t know many who willingly share knowledge to anyone who acts as if they are their ultimate superior).

  36. Dean

    God I wish I was fast. My experience with fast guy’s they do not even keep their hand hovering over the slide hold or E stop. Just push the green button and watch things go crunch and bang. It is amazing when they are let go just that fast,, they cry. Anyway if someone was 1/2 as good as the read they need to get a used CNC engine lathe and CNC turrit miller fix them up and make a killing at running PROTOTYPE Parts for a big medical company. They might let you get by without a ISO 13485 registration / Audit.

  37. doco

    If the man has ‘never crashed a machine …” he has probably not ran one very much. IMHO Its a totally absurd statement…


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