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Noah: God, I am so NOT relaxed right now. But I need to just embrace what I read recently — you need the courage to be rubbish. Just relax, stop worrying about everything being perfect, and do it. So that’s what we’re going to do today.

Lloyd: I will attempt not to be total rubbish. Just partial rubbish.

Noah: You don’t want to try to be rubbish — you want to feel okay with being rubbish. Are you okay with being rubbish?

Lloyd: It’s difficult to accept. What I really want to be able to say is: today has been a good day. I struggle with that sometimes.

Noah: I’m glad to hear that, because you came in an hour ago kind of like me, unsettled. Do you feel grateful today?

Lloyd: I do. I feel grateful for having this day.

Noah: I just finished listening to this book about gratitude, 30 days, a different angle each day. The one I listened to this morning: be grateful for moments before they happen, not after. Thank the world for this unforeseen, magnificent thing that’s about to happen, even if it seems mundane. So today on my commute, I said: thank you for the magnificent thing that’s going to happen while I’m sending out quotes to customers.

Lloyd: I’m grateful to be here with you, passing ideas back and forth, disagreeing, trying to come up with something provocative and useful.

Noah: You wanted to talk about why you’re still in the machinery business at 81. Why are you?

Lloyd: The question I ask myself every day is: why am I so damn obsessed about age? About being 81. How did I get to live to be 81, and am I still any good at what I’m pretending to do every day?

Noah: That’s BS. You’re not pretending anything.

Lloyd: There is an aspect of what I’m fighting against: my negativity and pessimism. A leader beset by negativity doesn’t do a good job. I fear my fear about how the business is going to do is self-defeating.

Noah: What’s interesting is that business has been so rough for many months, and yet you keep getting right back up. Not complaining. Finding optimism in the next thing. To me, that makes you an amazing optimist.

Lloyd: Depends on the day. Every day in business you get hit with problems, with disappointment in others, in yourself. The hard part, and it gets worse as you get older, is staying buoyant. Knowing the next day could be better.

Noah: And that’s where the courage to be rubbish comes in. Just push through.

Noah: I woke up this morning feeling kind of yucky too. A deal isn’t working, I’m questioning my purpose. But here’s what I do: every night before bed, I write down my wins for the day. 99% of the time, there’s something genuinely positive, a good call with a customer, time with family, learning something new. And every day I write down one serendipitous thing that happened. When you name it, things have more meaning.

Lloyd: (on age 81) Some days I think: Lloyd, you’re so fortunate. This is 18 years of gravy after a heart attack, enjoy each day. And other days I think: 81, I’m almost out of days, and that’s depressing precisely because I’m enjoying each one. I don’t want to be out.

Noah: That’s living in the gap versus the gain right there.

Lloyd: Explain the “Gap in the Gain” concept.

Noah: Great book. Highly recommend it. It’s by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. The idea: high achievers set ideals, “I want to be rich, I want to be happy,” and they never feel like they’ve arrived because the ideal keeps moving. That’s living in the gap. But if you actually define what a win looks like and document when you win, you start living in the gain. It totally changes your mindset. It’s why it’s powerful to look back at the end of the day before you sleep, and Sullivan even suggests writing down a win for the next day before it’s happened.

Lloyd: Write down what you’ve won when you haven’t experienced it yet?

Noah: I know, mysterious. I almost never do it. But it ties back to being grateful in advance. I think it puts you in the right frame of mind.

Lloyd: I don’t write it, but I imagine it. And giving thanks usually puts me in the right frame of mind to go to sleep.

Lloyd: Let’s talk about why we do these podcasts. Why do I write the blog?

Noah: The Graff-Pinkert Times, the granddaddy of Today’s Machining World. Was it ever really about business?

Lloyd: Honestly? It was a showcase for my writing. Ego gratification, and to brand the company, give it an image of quality and originality. But the underlying reason was as a showcase for my creativity, using the machinery business as a vehicle.

Noah: You have a master’s in journalism from Michigan. You wrote for the Michigan Daily. You did it partly because it’s fun.

Lloyd: That’s right. And it still is fun. To create something original that nobody has ever done before, and see it published. It’s still a thrill.

Noah: I feel like it fills a hole in me, a sense of purpose. I want it to leave its mark. You want something different: you want somebody to actually reach out and say it affected them.

Lloyd: I want the dopamine. But I also believe the things I write have sufficient merit that people should read them and get value. The piece I wrote yesterday about my wife Risa’s headache coaching program, I spent a lot of time on it, felt good about it. Then I looked and there were no comments. Did anybody read this? Did anybody care?

Noah: We really need to put likes back on the website.

Lloyd: But I do believe that somebody in Arizona is going to read that, or tell someone in Boise about it, and they’re going to say: my mother desperately needs this.

Noah: Let’s finish on a high note. We’re both very enthusiastic about the Cubs this year. Cade Horton, the phenom everyone was so high on, got hurt after one game and they announced Tommy John surgery, out for the season. The team had been four and six, tight, underperforming. And then the day they announce the surgery, everybody just comes out loose. They win nine to two, then six to two, sixteen hits in the first game. I believe that was serendipity, a jolt that made people play grateful, play loose. What do you think?

Lloyd: Let me tell you my true honest belief about my beloved Chicago Cubs.

Noah: Mm-hmm.

Lloyd: I believe every day, they will lose.

Noah: (laughing) Really.

Lloyd: Therefore, every victory is a gift, a wonderful upset.

Noah: I think when they win, everything’s right with the world. When they lose, eh, it’s just a game. I’m going to think about something else. I think you’re messing around here.

Lloyd: I’m telling you the truth.

Noah: I think this podcast itself was a little serendipitous. We always say we’re going to do more episodes together. We only end up doing one or two a year. Today I didn’t have anyone else to interview. And we both started out kind of eh, and I think we’re ready to go kick some butt.

Lloyd: Let’s do it.

Question: What’s your move when you wake up feeling rubbish?

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